[pnrailway]

Tim and I were discussing this the other day and he felt I should post there so here goes.

The past few days I have been tinkering with an already released route, (the B&S over at Train-Sim) to improve it's appearance, at least to my liking. The route is set in northwestern PA and southwestern NY and while scenically it has many very well done scenes, (I have not been able to run the entire route as yet, just been running some and making scenic changes here and there), there are a few things track wise I find dis-concerting, (a number of the curves are way to sharp to be anywhere near prototypical and need some help), and hopefully after I learn the RE some more I will be able to go back and repair. But anyway, on to the shots because the route has plenty of atmosphere and a nice short line feeling to it. You'll see what I mean.





















Paul

[pnrailway]

And here are a few more

[timmuir]

It looks like a nice route, Paul, and the #62 and train look right at home burnishing the rails there in your screens. When you say the curves are too sharp, do you mean like a traction line? It looks like a good candidate for modifying into an interurban line.

[pnrailway]

timmuir, on May 25 2009, 12:21 PM, said:

It looks like a nice route, Paul, and the #62 and train look right at home burnishing the rails there in your screens. When you say the curves are too sharp, do you mean like a traction line? It looks like a good candidate for modifying into an interurban line.

Tim,


This is a very long route containing the complete WAG route that was released several years ago. It starts outside of Buffalo, NY and heads southeast into PA. Besides the WAG that was incorporated and backdated, there is also the line that heads south out of Galeton, PA and uses a switchback to climb a mountain (I have not run over this portion yet so not sure how it looks, but it will take many hours to run end to end. As far as what I meant about sharp curves, there are numerous places where the line is heading in one direction and then makes a sharp turn either to the left or right, (sometimes 90 degrees but usually around 30 degrees), where there is plenty of room for a more gentile curve.

As far as being an interurban line, it probably would work well. Part of the industry base is wood products, coal and especially tanneries on the WAG portion of the route. Before the WAG was formed it was part of the B&O and before that was a separate Buffalo & Susquehanna.

Paul

[Mans]

However, if you plan to run Ma&Pa equipment on the route it should look OK, the Ma&Pa had a lot of really tight curves left over from the narrow gauge days.

/M�ns

[pnrailway]

Mans, on May 25 2009, 05:44 PM, said:

However, if you plan to run Ma&Pa equipment on the route it should look OK, the Ma&Pa had a lot of really tight curves left over from the narrow gauge days.

/M�ns

Mans,

Having walked and/or ridden over every foot of the original Ma&Pa, not the present York Southern, from the time it still ran steam onward I can tell you that while it had some sharp curves, (it had the knick name of the route of the screaming flanges), they aren't anything like this. The curves still need to be there, they just need to be started earlier so that they don't change direction so abruptly. I have viewed all of this route in a track viewer program and it has great potential, especially if you are interested in the logging/lumber industry. The Ma&Pa equipment does look at home, but I can just picture what it would look like with TLC equipment since it is set in 1906. With different car spanners it would also make a great 1950's B&O route since the B&O ran it for many years.

As I told Tim in a private email, from the Buffalo vicinity end to the main yard at Galeton is 151 miles and then there is another 22 + miles to interchange with the PRR to the south. There is also the two branches that head north and east to interchanges with the NYC & Erie. This is by no means a small route and there are a number of operating bottlenecks built in in the form of three separate switchbacks.

Paul

[Genma Saotome]

Looks really nice... except for one thing: there's a serious color flaw in one of those trees textures (first three pictures). Looks like florescent bottle green to me. Whatever that texture is has to be fixed.

[pnrailway]

Genma Saotome, on May 26 2009, 10:53 AM, said:

Looks really nice... except for one thing: there's a serious color flaw in one of those trees textures (first three pictures). Looks like florescent bottle green to me. Whatever that texture is has to be fixed.

Dave,

If it is the trees I think you are talking about, they have already been changed out of the route. This is still a work in progress and I am trying different tree tectures to see which ones I like the best. But I have problems telling since I am red/green color blind.

Paul

[pnrailway]

It looks like the sharp curves I was complaining about are more or less prototypical as I came across this the other day over at the "Fallen Flags" website about the Buffalo and Susquehanna
:
Bob Rathke sent me a copy of a letter he received in 1965 from Bob Gerling Rochester, NY B&O railfan. The letter details the B&O operations in Western PA. The copy I had was not the greatest so I did the best I could.

Redrawn map from letter

The entire line from the coal mines around Sagamore, PA to the north ends at Addison, NY and Wellsville, NY which both connected toe the Erie Mainline were taken into the B&O system January 1, 1932. The same time the BR&P was taken over along with short line Mt. Jewett, Kushequa & Riderville that connected with the BR&P at Backus PA. They all were under the same ICC merger plan. The B&S to get from their south end north and trackage rights of the BR&P from Juneau, PA on the now Buffalo Division Indiana Sub-Division to Riker Yard Punxatawney on the main track up to B&J Junction at Sykesville, PA. (south of Du Bois) and off onto their own B&S tracks. Trackage rights ran around 20 miles of BR&P tracks.

In the spring of year 1942 First Fork of Sinnemahoning Creek flooded and washed out much of the track between Sinnemahoning and Wharton, isolating the north end of B&S from the B&O System. In them would cost one million dollars to rebuild the flooded out sections which surveys showed would not be justified from future traffic, so the line was officially abandoned from Sinnemahoning to Burrows, PA. The washed out section amounted to around 15 to 20 miles of track. Around 1943 track was taken up from Wharton to Burrows and being World War II, was probably used for relaying rail on other parts of the system. This section included two of the three switch backs on the line.

Engines for back shopping and company materials had to be carried in Erie trains from Salamanca, NY to Wellsville to get to the isolated section. Old B&S back shops at Galeton, PA was made into a engine house and all class repairs could be made there except rebuilding which was done at old BR&P back shop (locomotive) at Du Bois. The only B&S track the B&O operates today (1965) is from C&M Junction, Du Bois, PA to Medix Run which still goes through two tunnels. This is still listed as Wharton Subdivision in current Buffalo Division time card. About ten years back the south end of the line from Juneau to Sagamore was abandoned and sold to Nick Kovalchick along with the large coal mine properties and equipment of the old B&S Coal & Coke Company at Sagamore. The rail is still in with tree sapling growing between the ties. Don't know what Nick is going to do with it. A couple of years back he cleaned up the coal mine property and sold most of the mine rail.

On January 1, 1956, the B&O sold the isolated section of the B&S from Burrows & Galston, PA to Addison, NY including the Wellsville and Ansonia Branches. Guess was around 90 miles of right of way not including yard tracks at Galeton and various sidings. Was sold to the M.E. Salzburg outfit which operated the line as the Wellsville, Addison, and Galeton RR Corporation. They changed to diesel power using pre-war Gas-Electric cabs in center ex-Ford Motor Company Rouge Plant locomotives. The Salzburg since have abandoned the line from Burrows to Galeton, and 14 miles of main track from Elkand, PA to Addison, NY leaving Wellsville, NY as the only interchange point with the Erie Lackawanna. At Elkland, PA is the largest leather tannery in the world, also there is a large tannery at Westfield, PA. Their biggest source of traffic is bring hides from the Mid-West to the tanneries. That is why they use the trade name Sole Leather Line on WAG box cars. Last year the Salzburg's bought the short line Coudusport & Port Allegancy which connected on Wellsville Branch at Newfield Junction, PA, near Gold, PA. This line had two GE 45 ton switchers, a B&S 4 wheel bobber built new for them at Galeton Shops and one snow plow. C&PA quite steam operation around 1949.

In 1932, B&O took over 46 B&S locomotives renumbered into B&O System.

3 B&O Class A-9/A-10 Atlantic Numbers 1484-1486 (Alco, Brooks 1904-06)
43 B&O Class E60 Consols Numbers 3100-3142 (Alco, Brooks 1904-06)
Total engine weight of Atlantic was around 75 tons not including tender and 92 tons for the Consols, the B&S had real light power. From some old BR&P files prior to 1932 find mention of some leased B&O power on the B&S that was shopped by the BR&P at Du Bois backshop, but was never able to come up with any reference to the numbers of the B&O engines

After the B&O took over the B&S, they still kept the E-60 Consols on the B&S lines because of the tight track curvatures and low bridge limits on axle loads. These engines remained right up to the end in 1956. At Galeton, PA. they still had a Addison local job and a Wellsville local job and a afternoon yard job at Galeton Yard plus occasional helper engine on Wellsville Branch so their were always five to six locos assigned to Galeton.

Some of the B&S consols were used at time's in yard service by the B&O on the old BR&P Middle Division around Du Bois and Riker yards. Also they were used as regular power on the Buffalo Division P&W Sub-Division out of Butler Junction to Foxburg, Kane and Mt Jewtt because of the low weight limits on this line. Also from pixs that turn up the E-60s ended up on other parts of the B&O system.

The WA&G in the sale kept the engines on the property which were the 3123, 3127, 3132, 3133, 3134 and 3135. They were all scrapped by the middle of 1956 and saw very little service by the new owner.

So there were a number of very tight curves necessitating small power. My mistake. On first generation diesels it looks like 4 axial or smaller power would be the rule.