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Steam Locomotive Additional Features Rate Topic: -----

#21 User is offline   joe_star 

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Posted 07 January 2023 - 04:25 AM

View PostWeter, on 07 January 2023 - 01:44 AM, said:

Hello.
I know only, that some of them have two burners: small one for "idle" and big one for "forsage"

The full complexities and variations of oil burners is going to be challenging to model. What I have so far is fairly generic as follows:

a. Option of fuel oil to use & flow (fuel valve)
b. Fuel heating
c. Steam atomisation (atomiser valve) internal/external and combustion efficiency (air dependent)
d. Heat released from combustion
e. Smoke condition based on combustion efficiency

#22 User is offline   joe_star 

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Posted 07 January 2023 - 04:44 AM

View PostWeter, on 07 January 2023 - 04:38 AM, said:

Wasn't heating combined with spraying, both steam-consuming?

This depends on what fuel is being used

Light fuel oils & kerosene flow quite freely and do not require pre-heating. Heavy fuel oils (e.g. no 6) can get quite tarry in cold weather and require pre-heating to be able to flow into the combustion chamber for further mixing with steam jet to be atomised into a spray that is ignited.

#23 User is offline   darwins 

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Posted 07 January 2023 - 04:45 AM

My thoughts on Brandon's list

Firstly I have pretty much the same list, and as said above we need to be patient, unless we can recruit additional coders.


Steam Physics (almost there):

Booster Trucks- work is starting on these


Sound:

Whistles/Air Horns- Making a way to have more then one whistle play - Could be good for some locos, at least using a user defined cab control, but not sure about finding a keyboard short cut. (Some UK models use the B key for the second note on the two tone horn.)


Animation:

Coal Loads- Animated and fit with the tender - yes please. (Is there another coder interested in animation, so that Peter can concentrate on the physics?)

Tender Water Hatches- Animated water hatches that open when you go to refuel the locomotive with water. - maybe, but allowing a water crane to fill side tanks at the side rather than a tender at the centre would be good.

Also being able to refuel from a fire hydrant as well. - surely you can do this already, you just have to designated the fire hydrant as being a fuel (water) point.

Animated reversers - I am done with 16 or 32 frames for all of the rods and cranks - I really don't want to multiply that number by 10 or 20 to show all the movements in different gears, though it would look cool if any modeller has the time to spend on it.


Steam Graphics:

Having steam and smoke be separate from each other - it feels like we are just arriving there.

Sand- I am not so bothered about the sand as you don't see it from far away, but would quite like to see steam from steam sanding gear.

Having a working blower for steam locomotives and have it interact with the smoke/steam - the blower physics should be working now, but graphics for blower could be enhanced, also where ejectors exhaust up the chimney they should impact the smoke flow and direction.

Cylinder Cocks- Cylinder cock steam be dependent on how much the throttle is open or closed - again it feels as though this is coming closer, as with cylinder exhaust from the chimney.


Steam Physics (maybe one day in the distant future):

Differences in fuel- Having a difference in the type of fuel used by a steam locomotive. Meaning different types of coal, wood, oil, exc.

Modelling combustion and getting smoke colours correct particularly for hand firing is a significant challenge.

Wood and coal (and even bagasse) are similar enough in behaviour that the same model can be used with different parameters. One of the big issues with these fuels is the complex nature of combustion as they contain both rapid burning volatile matter and slow burning fixed carbon.

For the present time we can also consider coke as being the same as other solid fuels, although coke burns in a very different way to fuels containing volatiles and probably deserves a different model.

Oil is rather different and needs different controls including steam heating to make it flow and in some cases an atomisation control that is separate from the burner control. It is the opposite in combustion to coke being all volatile matter and no fixed carbon.

#24 User is offline   ATSF3751 

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Posted 07 January 2023 - 05:20 AM

I just downloaded the code for the second time since Open Rails started and was looking through it. Seeing if there are any changes I could make personally to help Peter out. Currently I have to do more investigating into the coding but it looks fairly straight forward.

One thing I have not come to find quite yet is the smoke particles generator as that could use quite a bit of work. I am hoping a few small changes to it could drastically change the look of smoke/steam and help the appearance of it. I will leave the physics part to Peter as that is his strong point.

I have multiple steam locomotive projects in the works and willing to finish a few just to help us out with Testing purposes in the future. Most of the locomotives are mainline steam locomotives that are here in the USA that run on excursions.

I do think Peter could use some help with some aspects and I am willing to learn and help as time goes on.

One thing I do fear with Open Rails is that the team is they are mainly focused on physics and not putting enough effort into graphics and eye candy. As I see it Open Rails will be dead in the water if we do not upgrade the graphics and get working on some eye candy that many other games have already.

Brandon

#25 User is online   Weter 

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Posted 07 January 2023 - 06:18 AM

Quote

allowing a water crane to fill side tanks at the side rather than a tender at the centre

... By defining three coordinates for intake points, rather Z-axis range only - what we currently have.

Quote

Animated reversers

Indeed: pretty cool, but too damn complex (or only partially animated, but still)

Quote

and slow burning fixed carbon

And different amount of neutral ash or meltable slag, able to obstruct grates.

The man with yellow avatar (it's a shame, I've forgot his nickname), was known by working on particle emmitter code for ORTS at about 2013, IIRC

#26 User is offline   copperpen 

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Posted 07 January 2023 - 06:36 AM

Steam and smoke.

MSTS did these graphics very well using segments of the ace file to generate the clouds of steam that a locomotive produces under certain atmospheric conditions. These acre segments are applied to sprites that always face the camera and expand in various ways to give the impression of the ever expanding and dissipating cloud.

The cylinder cocks and whistle used the same method but in a smaller version of the stack.

Smoke was dealt with by applying colour to the steam for a short period tti simulate the burning of the hydrocarbons with each application of fuel.

Working on the same basis in OR we do not need particle physics, just a proper sprite handling system that in the case of the stack and firebox can also change the colour when firing takes place with the emissions firmly tied to either piston movement, or a system of tying the number of chuffs to wheel rotation and number of cylinders/

#27 User is offline   scottb613 

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Posted 07 January 2023 - 06:45 AM

Hi Folks,

In order to bring fully animated valve gear into the sim - I think ORTS would need to adopt true model rigging such as I demonstrated in my Blender thread (Armatures and Bones).

Regards,
Scott

#28 User is offline   scottb613 

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Posted 08 January 2023 - 05:24 PM

Hi Folks,

I haven't had much time to work on this - but I threw down some polys. My plan - this will be the extent of the Bogie/Truck booster parts - the next pieces added will be part of the locomotive at the top of the vertical pipe.

I don't know how well my plan will work yet.
:)

If it doesn’t work - I could move all the white piping to the locomotive and the pipes would drift a bit around the center of the booster but it should be pretty well hidden by the tender, draw bar, cab, stoker, and water piping. It should’t be noticeable to anyone except those looking for it.


Preliminary Booster:
Attached Image: 2023-01-08 20_16_34-Greenshot.jpg


Regards,
Scott

#29 User is offline   ATSF3751 

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Posted 08 January 2023 - 05:47 PM

looking good Scott. Sure doesn't hurt to do some trial and error when you get to putting it all together for the finished product.

Brandon

#30 User is offline   scottb613 

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Posted 08 January 2023 - 05:55 PM

View PostATSF3751, on 08 January 2023 - 05:47 PM, said:

looking good Scott. Sure doesn't hurt to do some trial and error when you get to putting it all together for the finished product.

Brandon


Hi Brandon,

Thanks - I had to build this anyway no matter the outcome of our booster physics endeavors.

Yeah - as I’m sure you’re well aware - you go down some road with modeling - it doesn’t work out - and you have to try a new course.

Regards,
Scott

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