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New ORTS Adhesion format Rate Topic: -----

#11 User is offline   Weter 

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Posted 08 June 2022 - 10:55 PM

Oh. Hello, Laci.
offtop:
Now, I recall: we told about katenary's voltage.

Old locomotives spend much power for ventilation as well as on heat losses in rectifiers, inductive-shunt coils and traction motors themselves.
So, maybe, it has sense to specify such power wasting amount for particular locomotive (factor of useful action, taken from testing protocols)

Quote

Is this to be understood as meaning that the current more or less well reflects the behavior of the DC series motor? Or do you just compare it?

I've meant:

Quote

said work will cause whole ORTS adhesion physics revision, which will affect overall traction attitude

Though, You are right too: series DC motors are tend to overspeed, once wheel-pair, driven by them begin slipping.

#12 User is offline   Laci1959 

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Posted 09 June 2022 - 02:26 AM

View PostWeter, on 09 June 2022 - 02:06 AM, said:

Though, You are right too: series DC motors are tend to overspeed, once wheel-pair, driven by them begin slipping.

The overspeed time can be set. Specifically, the deceleration time after closing is in the Wheelset section of the ORTSAdhesion block.
		Wheelset (
			Axle ( 1
				ORTSInertia ( 1879 )
				ORTSRadius ( 0.5 )
			)
			Axle ( 2
				ORTSInertia ( 1879 )
				ORTSRadius ( 0.5 )
			)
			Axle ( 3
				ORTSInertia ( 1879 )
				ORTSRadius ( 0.5 ) #1000mm átmérő
			)
			Axle ( 4
				ORTSInertia ( 1879 )
				ORTSRadius ( 0.5 ) #1000mm átmérő
			)
		)


Although this data can only be guessed at, because vehicle repairers keep this secret better than gold in FORT KNOX.

#13 User is offline   Lamplighter 

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Posted 28 September 2023 - 05:55 AM

The ORTSInertia function is described very briefly in the manual.
I'm wondering if OR still counts with it and if so, what does the code writing look like that is accepted.
This form of notation can be found in some older posts (for a four-axle locomotive):

Wheelset (
Axle ( 1
ORTSInertia ( value of parameter )
ORTSRadius ( radius of wheel )
)
Axle ( 2
ORTSInertia ( value of parameter )
ORTSRadius ( radius of wheel )
)
Axle ( 3
ORTSInertia ( value of parameter )
ORTSRadius ( radius of wheel )
)
Axle ( 4
ORTSInertia ( value of parameter )
ORTSRadius ( radius of wheel )
)
)


In other posts and in the OR manual, the notation appears as follows (but, for example, it doesn't appear on Peter's CTN site at all):

Wheelset (
Axle (
ORTSInertia ( value of parameter )
ORTSRadius ( radius of wheel )
)
)


The OR manual does not mention the ORTSRadius parameter at all.

#14 User is offline   Laci1959 

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Posted 28 September 2023 - 07:30 AM

Hello.

The first solution seems better to me. Axle ( starts with 1. There are locomotives that have three axles in a bogie, but only the first and third are driven. A1A axle arrangement. I thought I would add all three axles, but the middle axle gets 0 inertia because it is the running wheel. This is how I tried the non-driven to influence the visual effect of the wheel in the event of a slip, but unfortunately this did not work out.
In addition, we have locomotives where only one bogie has driven wheels, the other bogie only has running wheels. The Czech and Slovak 810 series motorcars are also like this. The second wheel has 0 inertia.

Sincerely, Laci1959

#15 User is offline   cesarbl 

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Posted 28 September 2023 - 10:32 AM

Independently driven axles are currently under development, and the feature is intentionally undocumented until we perform some missing steps. In particular, we have to implement linking axle 1 to engine 1, axle 2 undriven, axle 3 to engine 2, etc. This will be done first for steam engines, with develpment being in an advanced stage, and then for electric and diesel engines.

It is a mistake to add an axle with 0 inertia, so please don't do that. Non-driven wheels also have inertia. It is better to leave the calculation to OR, by not setting ORTSInertia.

Also, the number in Axle ( #num is not used. You will need to specify all animated parts that belong to the axle in the Axle() definition (e.g. WHEELS11 and WHEELS12) if they were coupled together.

#16 User is offline   Lamplighter 

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Posted 28 September 2023 - 12:48 PM

Am I to understand that the second example is functional?
Does this mean that the value of the ORTSInertia parameter is the sum of the moments of inertia of all axles?
For some locomotives, moments of inertia can be found in specialised literature or reports. It depends on the design of the axle drive and includes the axle itself, the wheels, the gearbox, the clutch and the traction motors etc.

#17 User is offline   Lamplighter 

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Posted 01 October 2023 - 12:05 AM

View PostLaci1959, on 28 September 2023 - 07:30 AM, said:

Hello.

The first solution seems better to me. Axle ( starts with 1. There are locomotives that have three axles in a bogie, but only the first and third are driven. A1A axle arrangement. I thought I would add all three axles, but the middle axle gets 0 inertia because it is the running wheel. This is how I tried the non-driven to influence the visual effect of the wheel in the event of a slip, but unfortunately this did not work out.
In addition, we have locomotives where only one bogie has driven wheels, the other bogie only has running wheels. The Czech and Slovak 810 series motorcars are also like this. The second wheel has 0 inertia.

Sincerely, Laci1959


Hi Laci
I would say that no axle has zero inertia. Everything that rotates will have some moment of inertia. In the case of a non-drive axle, it will be at least the wheels and the axle itself. In the case of a driven axle, it will be the axle itself, the wheels and the drive system (gearbox, clutch, traction motor, etc.)
That's why I'm wondering if the ORTSInertia parameter is for the whole vehicle (includes all axles) or represents only one axle (and wheel radius). In principle, ORTSInertia can also be used for towed vehicles, since even an ordinary axle represents an inertial mass and contributes to driving resistance.

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