[scottb613]

 Weter, on 27 November 2021 - 10:54 PM, said:

May I ask another "foolish" question?
How Mip mapping works at MSTS/ORTS for us?

Hi Weter,

MipMaps are one of the best ways we have to combat Moire distortions on our textures in the sim - any time you have a texture where you have high contrasting or repeating parallel lines on a texture - it will look like it shimmers in the sim. Vegetation seems to sparkle from the same effect. It seriously detracts from anything that uses the texture. Brick buildings - by their very nature - are probably the most notorious and severe examples we see - the textures seem to almost move and dance about as you change the camera angles. Things like track textures also do it quite often. The solution - is to lower the contrast of the offending texture and/or add MipMaps. MipMaps are simply like LOD’s we use for shapes - for your textures - the further you pull away - detail from the texture is combined and reduced in subsequent snapshots saved with the texture. Obviously MipMaps make your textures file size larger with the stored snapshots. If we can’t produce MipMaps for the offending texture - it renders the texture useless in my humble opinion.

Here’s more on Moire:
https://en.m.wikiped...r%C3%A9_pattern

Regards,
Scott

[Weter]

Thank you.
That's just the thing, I've noticed, seeing brickwork texture of solid wall.
Outstanding, high-detailed brick texture looks pretty odd, when covering very large area.
I didn't know about mip maps, but thought about LODs. So that's possible.
Slips are definitely may cause moire effect, as we are riding the train.

[scottb613]

Hi Folks,

More info on my struggles.

Ok - so I realized AceIt will create MipMaps - and it works fine even on 2048 when using the GUI interface - however - once you switch to the command line interface which is essential for bulk processing - it fails to add the MipMaps even though the documentation states it should - it seems the program is faulted.

So - I fell back to a program called ConvImX made by the same guy who made TGA Tool - as it handles ACE. While ConvImX converts to DDS - it can’t go directly from ACE to DDS - it crashes - you have to use an intermediate step of creating TGA first - then go to DDS. The program is slow and would take hours to process a thousand or more Terrtex files. Wondering if it’s truly worth the effort.

I chatted with Sean who created Mullens which exclusively uses DDS - he echoed my experience with TSRE - while you can place DDS - any output TSRE saves will be in ACE format. All his ACE files were converted after the fact when readying the route for distro. I have been unable to replicate Randy’s experience of creating DDS files with TSRE.

Regards,
Scott

[scottb613]

 Weter, on 28 November 2021 - 07:07 AM, said:

Thank you.
That's just the thing, I've noticed, seeing brickwork texture of solid wall.
Outstanding, high-detailed brick texture looks pretty odd, when covering very large area.
I didn't know about mip maps, but thought about LODs. So that's possible.
Slips are definitely may cause moire effect, as we are riding the train.

Hi Weter,

Yeah for bricks - lower the brick contrast as well - I normally sample a color form the brick texture - paste it above the brick layer - then adjust the transparency of the layer until it lowers the contrast of the texture to what I’m looking for.

Look for “ReMipIt” in the file library and try running it on your offending texture.

Regards,
Scott

[scottb613]

 Weter, on 28 November 2021 - 09:53 AM, said:

maybe, some attributes need to be added to cmd there?

Hi Weter,

I've been using the command line interface to AceIt for years in various scripts - while the MipMap option is new for me - I'm pretty sure I'm doing it as per the guidance in the included help file. That said - I've certainly made stupid mistakes before but I've exhausted all the options I can think of.

Here's the syntax from the manual:

Quote

filter:<filter> (or f:<filter>)
This is used to specify the filter to use when producing MIP maps. There are three valid parameters for <filter>: box, linear, or point. Use a colon between the option and the parameter, i.e. filter:linear. Explanations of the filter types are available on the standard interface page.

Examples:

aceit.exe "c:\my documents\input.bmp" "c:\my documents\output\" /dxt /quiet /filter:linear

Here's my bat file:

@echo off
REM Set Paths
set "terrtex=Y:\MSTS Mini\CT River\Train Simulator\Routes\SCO_Test_CBL\terrtex"
set "ace_exe="Y:\MSTS Tools\AceIt\aceit.exe""

REM Make Ace
cd "%terrtex%"
FOR %%i IN ("%terrtex%\*.ace") DO (%ace_exe% "%%i" "%%i" /f:box /quiet /u 
	echo %%i)

echo.
echo.

echo Run Complete...

echo.
echo.
timeout /t 1 /nobreak > NUL

timeout /t 30
exit

Regards,
Scott

[Genma Saotome]

So if I understand correctly, the advantage of .dds files is it lets you skip the step of making an .ace file but it might come at a cost of greater use of disk space and vram. Is that correct? Anything else (e.g., visually sharper)?

Is there anything in OR that uses the sophisticated features of .dds, stuff like bump maps?

[Weter]

If I don't check "use *.dds prior to *.ace" at Options, some textures at Scenic Route won't be loaded-i.e. Will be substituted by solid gray texture.

[scottb613]

 Genma Saotome, on 30 November 2021 - 01:45 PM, said:

So if I understand correctly, the advantage of .dds files is it lets you skip the step of making an .ace file but it might come at a cost of greater use of disk space and vram. Is that correct? Anything else (e.g., visually sharper)?

Is there anything in OR that uses the sophisticated features of .dds, stuff like bump maps?

Hi Dave,

DDS lets you create your files directly in your paint program.
DDS opens the door to more tools than proprietary ACE files.
NVidia made their video cards to handle DDS files - so I think there may be some efficiencies gained over ACE.

I don't have all the sizes in front of me but I just converted an entire route to 2048 DDS Terrtex patches - we're talking thousands.

Previously - I typically used 1024 24bit Terrtex ACE patches and I never took the time to compress them so they came in at just over 4MB with MipMaps.

Now - with the 2048 Terrex DDS compressed with DXT1 - I'm at 2.66MB with MipMaps.

So - while I realize there is some loss with compression - doubling the texture size is giving me better performance while using less resources and looking better.

I believe the uncompressed 2048 24bit DDS with MipMaps is 12MB.

I am using MORE disk space - because I keep the uncompressed ACE files for TSRE so I can edit at will - - - while ORTS runs with the compressed DDS files giving me great performance.

Sadly - no Bump Maps or PBR textures - limit of ORTS - using both in P3D and what a complete game changer. They completely change a model.

Regards,
Scott

[steved]

Scott,

What did you end up having to do to get the .ddss to show up?

[scottb613]

 steved, on 30 November 2021 - 05:25 PM, said:

Scott,

What did you end up having to do to get the .ddss to show up?

Hi Randy,

What I found is that if I take a DDS and apply it to a tile - it will display the DDS and the DDS name is written to the tile.

If I then paint that tile and save that modified output it reverts to ACE - writes the ACE to the tile - and on subsequent visits it will display the ACE.

If you select a tile - TSRE will tell you the assigned texture in the left hand panel.

So I'm leaving every tile assigned an ACE - just like always - for TSRE for editing - then using the NVidia command line DDS Tool to script the massive amount of ACE to DDS conversions. ORTS then uses the DDS as I have the "Prefer DDS Option" selected.

Regards,
Scott