[Laci1959]

I found a book and a video about it. There were several types of switches. From manual to fully automatic transmission.
The motor trains shipped to South America had a fully automated transmission (Gear). Electropneumatic. The engine driver only regulated the throttle.
a: disengage the engaged gear
b: release the main switch (coupling?)
c: reduce engine charge to idle (gas take-off)
d: Shift to the next gear
e: gradual closing of the main switch (coupling?)
f: Reset engine charge.
These moments occurred partly over time and partly sequentially. Unfortunately, this is all that has been described about this type.
Sorry, if you have a hard time understanding, google will translate.

[darwins]

 Laci1959, on 15 November 2021 - 10:15 AM, said:

I found a book and a video about it. There were several types of switches. From manual to fully automatic transmission.
The motor trains shipped to South America had a fully automated transmission (Gear). Electropneumatic. The engine driver only regulated the throttle.
a: disengage the engaged gear
b: release the main switch (coupling?)
c: reduce engine charge to idle (gas take-off)
d: Shift to the next gear
e: gradual closing of the main switch (coupling?)
f: Reset engine charge.
These moments occurred partly over time and partly sequentially. Unfortunately, this is all that has been described about this type.
Sorry, if you have a hard time understanding, google will translate.

Thank you for that.

This is all very helpful information.

I have another question, I don't know if you can find the answer.

Do the Ganz transmissions used in Hungary include a freewheel?

Also did the Ganz automatic transmissions for Argentina include a freewheel?

(Freewheel allows train to coast in gear.)


...and one more question

Does your video show cab controls at all?

Do the trains with automatic transmission have only Forward-0-Reverse or do they also have Neutral-Drive control?
I have another question, I don't know if you can find the answer.

[Laci1959]

Quote

Do the Ganz transmissions used in Hungary include a freewheel?

There was no express freewheel. In the "0" position between the two gears, the clutch (clutch) separated the motor from the drive. Just like when you roll in the car with the clutch depressed pedal. , Some models had an "X" position between the two gears.

Quote

Also did the Ganz automatic transmissions for Argentina include a freewheel?

Quote

Do the trains with automatic transmission have only Forward-0-Reverse or do they also have Neutral-Drive control?

Unfortunately, I did not find a specific answer. I don't think so. The express request of the Argentine railway was the easy handling after receiving the first specimens, so it was only the throttle that regulated the charging of the diesel engine. The engine driver idled the diesel engine and then braked as needed. According to the description, the Gear Selector Switch initiated the activation or shifting of the appropriate gear at the right time for the speed of the motor vehicle. The Preparing Switch has generated the required electrical pulses to initiate the Grade Selector Switch.
The Pace Switch performed the required actions at the appropriate time.

Allocation of the Harghita multiple unit (DMU?) Gearbox, which is the same as Argentine multiple units:
0 Gear unit switched off
K Standby level. It is likely that this job was used in a position to produce air.
I. 550 l / min, Vmax = 12.2 km / h
I. 1150 l / min Vmax = 25.3 km / h
II. 1150 l / min Vmax = 38.2 km / h
III. 1150 l / min Vmax = 57 km / h
ARC. 900l / min Vmax = 67.5km / h
ARC. 1150 l / min Vmax = 86.1 km / h
ARC. 900 l / min Vmax = 100.2 km / h
V. 1150l / min Vmax = 128km / h

There were two requirements for a multiple unit.
1. Can maintain speed in a given gear.
2. Reach this speed as soon as possible with maximum engine charge.
I. and IV. the allocation obtained by omitting the lower speed version of the gear may correspond to the Argentinian version.
Although this is just an assumption on my part.

[Laci1959]

Reading through what I wrote, I assume that both Argentine multiple units had Off (0) and Standby (K translated S).
However, I could not find out that they could only be switched on when standing still or in motion.

Interestingly, the write engine specified speed (RPM) and speed.
Maybe this should be taken over and applied instead of GearBoxMaxTractiveForceForGears. For compatibility reasons, keep it.

[darwins]

Thanks again. It seems likely from the need for ease of operation and the description about idling the engine and braking as needed that a freewheel would have been present in the automatic transmission.

From an eng file point of view it seems to be

 GearBoxOperation( Automatic )
 GearBoxNumberOfGears( 5 )
 GearBoxMaxSpeedForGears( 25.3kmh 38.2kmh 57kmh 86.1kmh 128kmh )
 
 GearBoxDownGearProportion( 0.66 )

It is very interesting because there were very few automatic purely mechanical transmissions used on trains.

Most automatic transmissions are hydro-mechanical using a torque converter for starting.

Hopefully at some point I will also find some information about the gearboxes produced by Fiat and Tammerfors.

[Laci1959]

Quote

It is very interesting because there were very few automatic purely mechanical transmissions used on trains.

The mechanical gearbox was electropneumatic. That is, the air in the air cylinders was controlled by electric valves. The pistons of the air cylinders moved the gears of the transmission.
Around 1939, Ganz transported Argentine motor trains. Did a hydromechanical gearbox exist at that time? Even developed for a road car?

[Laci1959]

Quote

Does your video show cab controls at all?

https://www.youtube....h?v=nyK6iDpmCzA
Diesel Mechanical Five Axle Motor Vehicle Structure and Handling 1959
Developed in 1955, it is a 5-axle towing motor car. He had a leading position at both ends of this type, so he could travel in both directions solo. He was able to tow 2 cars. It was possible to tow 4 cars on two motor cars. The two motor cars were connected one after the other and had a remote control.

It also has English subtitles, at least for me.
Commissioning starts at 9:40 in the driver's position. On the left is the throttle (Throttle), on the right is the control switch, this corresponds to the transmission, it only has several positions.
I. starting the diesel engine
C. Reversal is only possible in this position
X. setting the first gear
A. "Releasing the clutch" means starting the motor car.
Gear I In the first gear, increase the charge of the diesel engine to the maximum speed (gas supply), accelerate the car to 20km / h.
Grade X. In this stage, it disengages the gear, releases the main switch (depressing the clutch), and discharges the diesel engine (gas to idle.)
Note: In the video, the engine driver idles. This contradicts the narrator’s explanation.
Gear II. gear engages the gear in the second gear, closes the main switch (clutch release) and then resets the diesel engine to maximum speed (maximum gas delivery).

The other stages work the same way. Interestingly, it does not move the throttle lever in these stages. The five-axle towing vehicle has an X position between each gear.
The gear ratio, 0, gear arrangement was characteristic of the two- and three-axle towed motor vehicles. During these shifts, the throttle had to be idled manually.
According to them, Ganz produced at least three different types.

[Laci1959]

 Sebességváltó működése (automatikus)
 GearBoxNumberOfGears (5)
 GearBoxMaxSpeedForGears (25,3 kmh 38,2 kmh 57 kmh 86,1 kmh 128 kmh)
 
 GearBoxDownGearProportion (0,66)

GearBoxMaxTractiveForceForGears is not included in the code! Do you think this can be omitted?
If you have a manual switch, you need the GearBoxMaxSpeedForGears value. Because I'm switching.

[darwins]

 Laci1959, on 17 November 2021 - 02:30 AM, said:

The mechanical gearbox was electropneumatic. That is, the air in the air cylinders was controlled by electric valves. The pistons of the air cylinders moved the gears of the transmission.
Around 1939, Ganz transported Argentine motor trains. Did a hydromechanical gearbox exist at that time? Even developed for a road car?

Yes. There were hydromechanical transmissions for road and rail vehicles in the 1930s.

The first such were I think produced in Sweden by Alfred Lysholm for road vehicles. In UK they were manufactured as Smith-Lysholm or Leyland-Smith-Lysholm transmissions. In Germany they were manufactured as Krupp-Lysholm transmissions. They had one torque converter with direct drive for higher speeds. Originally they were made for road vehicles. The picture below shows one of the first trains to use this type of transmission. It was built in 1938.


https://i.imgur.com/Dh9YYvV.jpg
It was experimental and here in UK we had to wait another 50 years before diesel units with hydromechanical transmission, air brakes and air operated sliding doors became common.

[darwins]

 Laci1959, on 17 November 2021 - 03:45 AM, said:

GearBoxMaxTractiveForceForGears is not included in the code! Do you think this can be omitted?
If you have a manual switch, you need the GearBoxMaxSpeedForGears value. Because I'm switching.

It should be included (or the new alternative GearBoxMaxTractiveForceAtSpeed ) but I can not put values for this as I do not have the specifications to hand!
GearBoxMaxSpeedForGears is needed at present for all trains with gears. It is used to calculate the relationship between engine speed and train speed in each gear.