[Laci1959]

If that's how we're immersed in the subject. There are also passengers in the control car, so it needs to be heated.
Where does ORTSPowerSupply (Default) go?
1. In the Wagon section because it needs to be heated there.
2. In the Engine section, because that is where you turn on the driver.
3. Into both.

[darwins]

Laci1959, on 15 March 2022 - 03:46 AM, said:

If that's how we're immersed in the subject. There are also passengers in the control car, so it needs to be heated.
Where does ORTSPowerSupply (Default) go?

Good question. Totally agree. This needs to be included.

As it is power consumed for heating then I think it needs to go in the WAG section.

(Entry in ENG section is for power generated - though we still have no way to set the maximum available here!)

So the locomotive might say:

ORTSPowerSupply ( "Default.cs" )
ORTSPowerOnDelay ( 5s )
ORTSAuxPowerOnDelay ( 10s )
ORTSElectricTrainSupply( DieselEngineMinRpm ( 500 ) )
ORTSElectricTrainSupply ( Mode ( Switch ) )
Comment ( Maximum ETS output 150kW )

If the driving trailer should be able to switch the supply on or off then it will need a switch so perhaps it would need something like

ORTSPowerSupply ( "Default.cs" )
ORTSElectricTrainSupply ( Mode ( Switch ) )

in order to make the switch work. Of course things like diesel engine rpm and max power available might change for different locomotives so they would not be part of this.

My suggestion for the developers is that any control or gauge defined in the eng or cvf file for a control trailer should relate to the nearest locomotive in the train.

I still do not know if there is a control for the eng file for ETS. For steam heat we have:

EngineControllers (

ORTSSteamHeat( 0 1 0.0125 0 )

)

[Laci1959]

Helló.

Current code of the control carriage:

Wagon (
	ORTSBrakePipeVolume ( 12.5l )
Comment ( " Öntöttvas fékpofák ")
	ORTSBrakeShoeFriction ( 0 0.31 1 0.30 2 0.28 3 0.27 4 0.26 5 0.25 7 0.24 8 0.23 9 0.22 12 0.21 14 0.20 17 0.19 20 0.18 24 0.17 29 0.16 34 0.15 40 0.14 47 0.13 55 0.12 66 0.11 84 0.10 115 0.09 160 0.09 )
	ORTSBrakeInsensitivity ( 0,5 bar/perc )

	ORTSDavis_A ( 514 )
	ORTSDavis_B ( 4.28 )
	ORTSDavis_C ( 1.00 )
	ORTSStandstillFriction ( 729.37 )
	ORTSMergeSpeed ( 0.22 )
	
ORTSBearingType ( Roller )
	ORTSNumBogies ( 2 )
	ORTSNumberAxles ( 4 )

	ORTSRigidWheelBase ( 2m 500mm )
	ORTSTrackGauge ( 1m 435mm )

Comment ( ** villamos teljesítmény igény ** )
	ORTSPowerSupply ( Default )
	ORTSPowerOnDelay ( 1s )
	ORTSPowerSupplyContinuousPower ( 545W )		comment ( akkutöltő világítás )
	ORTSPowerSupplyHeatingPower ( 24kW )		comment ( fűtési teljesítmény )
	ORTSHeatingWindowDeratingFactor ( 0.47 )		Comment ( == az autó oldalának az ablakok által elfoglalt része, Helyett az ablak felület  [20,24m^2] és a kocsi fűtött oldal felületének hányadosa [42,92m^2] 20,24/42,92m == )
	ORTSHeatingCompartmentTemperatureSet ( 24degC )		Comment ( == az a hőmérséklet, amelyre a kocsi termosztátja be van állítva == )
	ORTSWagonSpecialType ( Heated )				Comment ( == azt jelzi, hogy a kocsi fűtött, vagy kazánkocsi == )
)

Engine (
	Type ( Control )
	ORTSMainResChargingRate ( 0.04bar/s )
	ORTSBrakePipeChargingrate ( 1.8bar/s )
	ORTSBrakeServiceTimefactor ( 1.8 )
	ORTSBrakePipeTimeFactor ( 0.004 )
	ORTSTrainBrakesControllerMaxOverchargePressure ( 6.3bar )		Comment ( A túltöltés maximális értéke )
	ORTSTrainBrakesControllerOverchargeEliminationRate ( 0,025bar/s )	Comment ( Az a szivárgási sebesség amivel MENET állásban lecsökken 5 bárra. )

	ORTSPowerSupply ( Default )
	ORTSPowerOnDelay ( 1s )
	ORTSAuxPowerOnDelay ( 1s )
	ORTSBattery (								Comment ( Akkumulátor kapcsoló )
		Mode ( Switch )							Comment ( Kézzel kapcsolni, nyomógombos működtetés esetén PushButtons az érték )
		Delay ( 2s )							Comment ( Bekapcsolási késleltetés )
	)
	ORTSMasterKey (
		Mode ( Manual )							Comment ( Pakett kulcs )
		DelayOff ( 10s )						Comment ( Kikapcsolási késleltetés )
	)
	ORTSTrainControlSystem ( ..\\..\\common.script\\EVM.cs )
	ORTSTrainControlSystemParameters ( ..\\..\\common.script\\EEVB_M41.ini )

)

This is how I can imagine based on the Manual. I'm not sure it's good, in fact. This still needs to be thoroughly tested before I make a fool of myself.
If there is no control car, the locomotive will run fine, pick up the DieselEngineMinRpm (1034) turn, and return to idle when I turn off the heater.

ORTSSteamHeat (0 1 0.0125 0) Is it already alive or just an idea?

Sincerely, Laci1959

[mozdonyos]

darwins, on 15 March 2022 - 12:01 AM, said:

Control Trailers for trains with Manual Gear Change (diesel mechanical or diesel hydro-mechanical) should be able

Control Trailers for Steam Trains should be able to work with:

Vacuum_Single_Pipe #
Air_Single_Pipe *
...and possibly others!


* Air_Single_Pipe brakes on driving trailers have a second air supply pipe which provides air to the driver's brake controller for the release of brakes, it is not clear if this should be defined in ORTS as Air_Twin_Pipe or if this is better dealt with in some other way.

This is how Hungarian control cars work.
There is an MRP that is built all the way down the train to the control car brake.
There is no compressor in the control car. All air supply is from the locomotive.


There is a control car that has a train heating generator and it is not the locomotive but the control car that heats the train.

It should be possible to adjust whether the control car has a train heater or not.
But you should definitely know that the passenger compartment of the control car can be heated

[darwins]

mozdonyos, on 15 March 2022 - 04:42 AM, said:

This is how Hungarian control cars work.
There is an MRP that is built all the way down the train to the control car brake.
There is no compressor in the control car. All air supply is from the locomotive.

I think we should consider this as "Air_Twin_Pipe" in OpenRails - for any Air_Single_Pipe vehicles that have been converted to push and pull operation.

Quote

There is a control car that has a train heating generator and it is not the locomotive but the control car that heats the train.

So far I think it is possible to make such a generator car in OR only if defined as a diesel locomotive. When switched on, it does not seem to be possible to switch off the ETS on such cars.
They need to be diesel locomotives to get the diesel exhaust effect. So for diesel generators, either trailers or control trailers we would need a way to include diesel exhaust.

[Laci1959]

Quote

I think we should consider this as "Air_Twin_Pipe" in OpenRails - for any Air_Single_Pipe vehicles that have been converted to push and pull operation.

After all, this is a good compromise. At least there is no need to repair the wag files.

[mozdonyos]

darwins, on 15 March 2022 - 07:27 AM, said:

I think we should consider this as "Air_Twin_Pipe" in OpenRails - for any Air_Single_Pipe vehicles that have been converted to push and pull operation.

This is also perfect, you can only set whether the ARP is charging AR or not.

darwins, on 15 March 2022 - 07:27 AM, said:

So far I think it is possible to make such a generator car in OR only if defined as a diesel locomotive. When switched on, it does not seem to be possible to switch off the ETS on such cars.
They need to be diesel locomotives to get the diesel exhaust effect. So for diesel generators, either trailers or control trailers we would need a way to include diesel exhaust.

At the moment, I would be satisfied if the passenger compartment heater in the control car, in the motor car, worked, as in the case of a smooth car.

[Laci1959]

Quote

At the moment, I would be satisfied if the passenger compartment heater in the control car, in the motor car, worked, as in the case of a smooth car.

Hello.

It is likely that the ORTSPowerSupply (Default) entry alone is small because two different settings need to be implemented in one place.
1. An ORTSPowerSupply (car.cs) is required in the Wagon section, this is required for the heating settings.
2. An ORTSPowerSupply (motor.cs) is required in the Engine section, this is required for the engine and the locomotive-like settings of the control car.

Unfortunately, we don't have such a cs file, and we can't write without a proper pattern.

Sincerely, Laci1959

[darwins]

Review as we head towards version 1.5. How far has development of control trailers progressed? What is working and what is not?

At present control trailers are functional for electric, diesel-electric and diesel-hydraulic trains.

Working controls include pantograph raise and lower, direction, throttle, brakes, lights, horn.


Dials and gauges that should now work in cab view include:

RPM DIAL
ORTS_DIESEL_TEMPERATURE DIAL
ORTS_OIL_PRESSURE DIAL


Dials and gauges not yet working are:

LINE_VOLTAGE DIAL
PANTO_DISPLAY MULTI_STATE_DISPLAY
WHEELSLIP MULTI_STATE_DISPLAY
STEAM_PR DIAL


Also responding but not yet working correctly in most recent unstable version is:

LOAD_METER GAUGE


Braking systems currently supported are:

SME / SMEE
EP
Air_Twin_Pipe
Air_Twin_Pipe with ORTSMainResPipeAuxResCharging(false)

Blended dynamic braking is working

Compressors and Main Reservoirs can be placed on trailer cars, but in the latest unstable version compressor behaviour is not correct.


Braking systems not currently supported are:

Vacuum Twin Pipe - with mechanical exhausters as used on British Railways diesel multiple units.
Vacuum_Single_Pipe - with On/Off electrical exhausters as used on Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway electric multiple units


Traction systems not yet working:

Diesel trains with manual gear change
Steam trains


Finally there are things related to the Electric Train Supply:

ORTSBattery ()
ORTSMasterKey ()
ORTSElectricTrainSupply ()

Diesel Engine Start/Stop

At present control trailers can neither use electricity for heating or include diesel generators for ETS supply.

[darwins]

STEAM_PR DIAL shows the boiler pressure on trains propelled by steam locomotives - may not be needed, but I believe this could have been done by electrical connection. Does anyone know if this was done anywhere? Perhaps in France where they had some very sophisticated push-pull trains.
Speedometer, Air brake gauges and Vacuum brake gauges are all working.