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PushMePullYou Pull and Push / Push-Pull / Auto Train / Driving Trailer / Cab Car Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   darwins 

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Posted 02 June 2021 - 03:48 AM

I can not quite report this as a bug since OR has never officially supported driving trailers, but something has changed in the diesel code in the last year or two. When I set up the OR files for all the British first generation diesel units the driving trailers were all sets as engines without any diesel engine installed - zero horsepower - zero tractive effort - zero driving axles - like this:

Type ( Diesel ) Comment (* OR does not support Driving Trailer *)

 MaxVelocity ( 70mph )

Comment (********** Gearbox *************)

 DieselEngineType ( mechanical )

 GearBoxNumberOfGears( 4 )
 GearBoxDirectDriveGear( 4 )
 GearBoxMaxSpeedForGears( 15.3 27 41 65.5 )
 GearBoxMaxTractiveForceForGears( 29200N 16500N 10700N 7150N )
 GearBoxOverspeedPercentageForFailure( 120 )
 GearBoxOperation( manual )
 GearBoxEngineBraking( none )

Comment (*************************** Brake System *********************************************
                  	Included in this section - Compressor, Reservoir, Application rates, etc
     	**************************************************************************************)

Comment (*** Braking systems ***)
	BrakesTrainBrakeType( vacuum_single_pipe )
	ORTSBrakeServiceTimeFactor ( 120 )
	ORTSBrakePipeTimeFactor ( 0.01 )
	TrainPipeLeakRate ( 0.04 )

	Comment (*** Exhausters ***)
	ORTSBrakePipeChargingRate ( 0.24 )
	Comment (* ORTSBrakePipeChargingRate Assumes rapid charging from reservoir pipe *)
	Comment (* Mechanical exhausters - depend upon engine speed - charge vacuum reservoir - twin pipe system - not modelled in OR *)
	Comment (* Unit fitted with quick release twin pipe vacuum brake system - brakes section should be updated if this becomes functional in Open Rails *)


Comment (*** Brake Valve Combined ***)
	TrainBrakesControllerMaxReleaseRate ( 2 )
	TrainBrakesControllerMaxApplicationRate( 1 )
	TrainBrakesControllerMaxSystemPressure ( 21inHg )

Comment (******************* Train Control Systems (If used) ***********************************************
                  	Included in this section - Monitoring of Overspeed, Emergency Braking, Vigilance, etc
     	***************************************************************************************************)

Comment (* BR AWS - 1956 Vac *)

  Comment (************************** Engine Controls **********************************************
                  	Included in this section - Controllers for Regulator, Reverser, Brakes, etc
     	*****************************************************************************************)

 DoesHornTriggerBell( 0 )
 
 EngineControllers (
  	Throttle ( 0 1 0.1 0
    	NumNotches ( 5
      	Notch( 0 0 Dummy )
      	Notch ( 0.15  	0 Dummy )
      	Notch ( 0.50  	0 Dummy )
      	Notch ( 0.70  	0 Dummy )
      	Notch ( 1.0   	0 Dummy )))
      	 
	Brake_Train ( 0 1 0.2 0.4
    	NumNotches( 3
            	Notch(0 0 TrainBrakesControllerReleaseStart )
            	Notch(0.4 0 TrainBrakesControllerSelfLapStart )
            	Notch(0.6 0 TrainBrakesControllerApplyStart )))
 
	DirControl ( -1 0 1 1 )
	AWS ( 0 1 0 )
	Sanding ( 0 1 0 )
	Horn ( 0 1 0 )
	Wipers ( 0 1 0 )
 
	Gear( 0 4 1 0
         	NumNotches ( 5
            	Notch ( 0     	0 Dummy )
            	Notch ( 1     	0 Dummy )
            	Notch ( 2     	0 Dummy )
            	Notch ( 3     	0 Dummy )
            	Notch ( 4     	0 Dummy )))
 
   Headlights ( 0 0.25 1 0 )
   )

 Comment (********************** Micellaneous Information ****************************
                  	Included in this section - Alternate Views, Sounds, Names, etc
     	****************************************************************************)

  CabView ( "..\\..\\Common.Cab\\DMUGen1\\DMUGen1aC.cvf" )

 Sound ( "..\\..\\common.sound\\1st Gen DMU v2\\DMUcabTrailer.sms" )
 

I recently found that this no longer works. For some reason OR now puts a massive 2500 kW default engine into this with huge fuel tanks to match:


https://i.imgur.com/qwlYBQ4.png


There is some success in using this alternative:

Engine ( Class105_DTCL_E56416_BRBf

 Wagon ( Class105_DTCL_E56416_BRBf )

 Type ( Diesel ) Comment (* OR does not support Driving Trailer *)

 MaxPower ( 0 )
 MaxForce ( 0 )
 MaxContinuousForce ( 0 )
 MaxDieselLevel( 0 )

 MaxVelocity ( 70mph )

Comment (********** Gearbox *************)

 DieselEngineType ( mechanical )


https://i.imgur.com/DNevHxM.jpg


Though it can not now display the manual gear changes, they can still be carried out.

How about trying:

 Type ( Electric ) Comment (* OR does not support Driving Trailer *)

 MaxVelocity ( 70mph )

Comment (********** Gearbox *************)

 DieselEngineType ( mechanical )

 GearBoxNumberOfGears( 4 )



Using Type ( Electric ) works reasonably well if the train has diesel electric propulsion:


https://i.imgur.com/BRKBJHR.png


(Just ignore all the stuff about pantographs, it works!)
There is a work around for diesel electtric traction.
Unfortunately this gives disappointing results for the unit with mechanical transmission, the engine revs up, but the gears do not engage and the unit does not move.


https://i.imgur.com/oQcFpTy.png


Using Type ( Electric ) also seems to be a good work around for steam power. OR hates me if I try to have a steam loco without a boiler, but the electric loco results in a perfectly functional push pull train:


https://i.imgur.com/fFx1ybN.png


Type ( Electric ) also still works perfectly well for electric trains. Thankfully that has not changed:


https://i.imgur.com/g50Wmk1.jpg


(Though you must remember to put your pantograph up - even if you are running on live rails!)

One day perhaps Type ( Trailer ) will finally be added to the code. Until then we will just have to put up with OR log error messages about the fact that our locomotive does not have any driving wheels.


Warning: Engine:ORTSNumberDriveAxles is less than 1, parts of the simulation may not function correctly in D:\OR\NewForestMiniRoute\trains\trainset\3h_darkgreen\3h_dtcol_darkgreen.eng:line 100

Information: Number of Locomotive Drive Axles set to default value of 4



Until then:

For Electric Driving Trailers - the work around is Type ( Electric )
For Steam Driving Trailers - the work around is Type ( Electric )
For Diesel Electric Driving Trailers - the work around is Type ( Electric )

For Diesel Mechanical Driving Trailers - use Type ( Diesel ) as previously but add some extras like


MaxPower ( 1kW )
MaxForce ( 1N )
MaxContinuousForce ( 1N )
MaxDieselLevel( 1L )

To avoid the installation of an enormous default diesel engine you did not ask for!

https://i.imgur.com/fC5hhey.png

#2 User is offline   ErickC 

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Posted 24 June 2021 - 10:05 PM

I had a similar issue with my Soo Line cabooses, they were set up as powerless engines, then they started doing the Mach 3 wheelslip with the diesel code changes. I added a tractive effort curve with 0 lb of traction force at all speeds and that solved it.

We really do need parameters for a control car.

That doesn't solve the viewpoint problem present in 3D cabs over the last couple of years, though, so no matter what you do, switching locomotive cabs (to, say, a cab car, caboose, or even a GP from an SD type) requires you to manually reposition the viewpoint inside the cab again unless all locomotives are the same size.

#3 User is online   Weter 

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Posted 25 June 2021 - 02:08 PM

Yes, in last half of year, ORTS notes in *.log file, that missing diesel or steam features was derived from standard tab and substituted.
See my comments in NewForest route topic about avoiding to set zero power and force, and also, you can investigate, how TSR team implemented powerless rear control car.

#4 User is offline   darwins 

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Posted 19 July 2021 - 04:24 AM

Hi Weter,

The TSR team did not achieve powerless rear car control. The Latvian dmu you linked to in the New Forest thread has a typical MSTS cheat.

The power output has been divided between the power car and the driving trailer.

Yes, you can drive from the driving trailer.

There is no diesel smoke and no diesel noise from the trailer, because it has been set up without smoke and engine sounds.

If you uncouple the driving trailer you can drive off alone - it is defined as a diesel locomotive with 360kW of power available.

So we are still a long way from getting functional driving trailers.



#5 User is online   Weter 

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Posted 19 July 2021 - 07:44 AM

Hi.
Sorry, I don't like DR1, so I personally didn't use it, what was said then.
I was hoping, that they made that Dinaburga train (with only one power set and only control cab at opposite end) more fair.
Excuse me for wasting your time.
But in case of EMU, ER2 type, which I widely used and many times tuned, that is true: 1watt electric loco.

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