Elvas Tower: Problem with BP Charging. - Elvas Tower

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Problem with BP Charging. Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   Fablok 

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 04:32 PM

On acts when is needed to cuple standing still loose consist I have problem. I couple train , open valves and BP stops at 63 PSI. In Explorer mode I can uncouple and couple many imes and there is no problem but with static cars in acts there is. Here are brake parameters of locomotives and cars. ( I have unify all of them ) Of course instant brake activation from (\) wokrs fine. Charge rate set to 25 Psi/s

Loco brakes :

NumWheels ( 12 )
ORTSAdhesion ( ORTSCurtius_Kniffler ( 7.5 44 0.161 0.7 ) )
ORTSAdhesion ( ORTSSlipWarningThreshold ( 70 ) )
ORTSBearingType ( Roller )
ORTSDavis_A ( 1964.65 )
ORTSDavis_B ( 61.4665 )
ORTSDavis_C ( 8.510148 )
Antislip ( 1 )
BrakeEquipmentType ( "Handbrake, Triple_valve, Auxilary_reservoir, Emergency_brake_reservoir" )
BrakeSystemType( "Air_single_pipe" )
MaxBrakeForce( 178kN )
MaxHandbrakeForce ( 57.2kN )
NumberOfHandbrakeLeverSteps( 100 )
EmergencyBrakeResMaxPressure( 110 )
TripleValveRatio( 2.5 )
EmergencyResVolumeMultiplier ( 1.461 )
MaxReleaseRate( 22.2 )
MaxApplicationRate( 13.9 )
MaxAuxilaryChargingRate( 20 )
EmergencyResCapacity( 1.792ft^3 )
EmergencyResChargingRate( 20 )
BrakePipeVolume ( 0.307ft^3 )
BrakeCylinderPressureForMaxBrakeBrakeForce( 90 )

EngineBrakesControllerMinPressureReduction( 6 )
TrainBrakesControllerMinPressureReduction( 6 )
EngineBrakesControllerHasProportionalBrake( 1 )
EngineBrakesProportionalBrakeLag( 1 )
EngineBrakesControllerMaxApplicationRate( 20 )
TrainBrakesControllerMaxApplicationRate( 13.9 )
EngineBrakesControllerMaxReleaseRate( 20 )
TrainBrakesControllerMaxReleaseRate( 22.2 )
EngineBrakesControllerEmergencyApplicationRate( 50 )
TrainBrakesControllerEmergencyApplicationRate( 50 )
EngineBrakesControllerMinSystemPressure( 0 )
TrainBrakesControllerMinSystemPressure( 0 )
EngineBrakesControllerMaxSystemPressure( 90 )
TrainBrakesControllerMaxSystemPressure( 90 )
EngineBrakesControllerEmergencyBrakeTimePenalty( 60 )
TrainBrakesControllerEmergencyBrakeTimePenalty( 60 )
EngineBrakesControllerFullServicePressureDrop( 26 )
TrainBrakesControllerFullServicePressureDrop( 26 )

Cars brakes.

BrakeEquipmentType ( "Handbrake, Triple_valve, Auxilary_reservoir, Emergency_brake_reservoir, Retainer_4_Position" )
BrakeSystemType( "Air_single_pipe" )
MaxBrakeForce( 57.7kN )
MaxHandbrakeForce ( 57.2kN )
NumberOfHandbrakeLeverSteps( 100 )
EmergencyBrakeResMaxPressure( 110 )
TripleValveRatio( 2.5 )
EmergencyResVolumeMultiplier ( 1.461 )
MaxReleaseRate( 22.2 )
MaxApplicationRate( 8.9 )
MaxAuxilaryChargingRate( 20 )
EmergencyResCapacity( 1.792ft^3 )
EmergencyResChargingRate( 20 )
BrakePipeVolume ( 0.307ft^3 )
BrakeCylinderPressureForMaxBrakeBrakeForce( 90 )

https://zapodaj.net/images/11770f9712956.jpg

#2 User is offline   Weter 

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 05:18 PM

On picture, valve at the end of train is still opened.
Did you try shift +? To try automatically instant brake repair, for checking, are the brakes OK?

#3 User is offline   engmod 

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 07:19 PM

I found that the BP stayed on 63 for a long time.
I did eventually change the timing to make charging faster.

#4 User is offline   pschlik 

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 07:47 PM

I suspect what's going on here is that the aux res and emergency res charging rate has been set too high, which causes the train cars at the front of the train to hog all the air for themselves, preventing air from reaching further down the train.

TrainSimulations uses a reservoir charging rate of 20 psi/s which is very unrealistic; my research indicates a charge rate of 1 psi/s is much closer to real-life (granted, there are some features of the reservoir charging process on real brake valves that Open Rails cannot faithfully represent).


As for the reason the pipe gets stuck at 63 psi, for some reason after an emergency application train cars will not suck in any air at all until the brake pipe reaches 64-ish psi. This isn't realistic behavior, and it was introduced sometime since 1.3.1. I have no clue why this was done, but it is yet another example of Open Rail's unrealistic handling of the emergency mode on a control valve. And I'm sure changing this would break everything (or something like that).

Unless you want to modify the physics of all of your stuff to the moon and back like I have, just initialize the brakes so you don't have to deal with the charging process.

#5 User is offline   Fablok 

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Posted 05 April 2021 - 03:28 AM

Thanks for answer. So right now I will fast pump air to long consists via brakes key , and wait until problem will be fixed. And one more question what should be this charge pressure? It's funny becouse I'm former switcher locomotive engereer but I never look on this in that way ;) Normaly I have to form one long coal consist from 3 parts. 10-13 coal cars and then put it together. But I have to only prepere consist. After I put it together, I have cut my loco cuple, air pipes and make conection of couplers beetwen parts of those coal cars. When main line loc took over , their crew pump air to whole consist. Greets from Poland :)

#6 User is offline   darwins 

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Posted 05 April 2021 - 03:38 AM

Just a random thought, as someone not very familiar with the North American single pipe plus emergency reservoir system. The wagons have max emergency res pressure set to 110 psi. If the train pipe pressure is 90 psi, isn't this impossible to achieve?

#7 User is offline   ebnertra000 

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Posted 05 April 2021 - 04:55 AM

Brake line pressure depends on the type of train. Most freight trains run around 90psi, while passenger trains typically run at 110. That's probably the reason you'll see varying pressures

#8 User is offline   pschlik 

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Posted 05 April 2021 - 06:16 AM

Open Rails doesn't even use the max emergency res pressure line. TrainSimulations has a habit of including lots of extra parameters that only MSTS used, not just that one.

#9 User is offline   Fablok 

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Posted 05 April 2021 - 02:13 PM

On revision 57 brakes are runing fine even with new parameters. So I will stay right now on 57.

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