[roeter]

 jonas, on 29 March 2021 - 06:07 PM, said:

Does that mean for OR in general: If a train successfully passes a signal (and the signal had turned to red) then the switches ahead are considered as being in a non-signaled area?

That depends on the situation in general, and the route of that specific train.
If the route of the train is such that there is another signal ahead, the train will remain in 'SIGNAL' mode and the area is considered to be controlled by signals.
However, if the route of the train is such that there is no further signal ahead (e.g., routed into a dead-end bay, or the route ends at such a point that there are switches between the end of the route and the next signal, and other such situations), then the train will change to 'NODE' control and the area is not considered to be controlled by signals. There is no logic which looks 'behind' the train, the system only looks in forward direction, and what it finds there will determine the control mode.

Regards,
Rob Roeterdink

[jonas]

I have learned if the trailing switch ahead is closed and the train has passed the signal it is in a dead end. This in turn means that the train here is in a NODE controlled area.

In a NODE controlled area, the trailing switches ahead are not set automatically, what in turn means that the G key cannot reach the next facing switch (red arrow).

In the current ORNYMG, the trailing switch must first be opened with Ctrl + G, so that the facing switch can then be set by G. Do I understand this right so far?

[Csantucci]

Yes, it is so, although I noticed a slightly different behavior of Explorer and Manual mode.

[jonas]

Yes, I have now test the different modes with ORNYMG too.


I am in Activity Mode and stand directly in front of a facing switch. I press Ctrl + G to set the trailing switch behind the facing one -> a message appears that the trailing switch ahead is locked and that I could change to manual mode.
If I switch to manual mode and then press Ctrl + G again, the message appears: "Warning - No switch found"

If I start ORNYMG in Explore Mode in the same situation and press Ctrl + G, no message appears at all. After passing the signal, I can set the trailing switch by Ctrl + G.

[jonas]

 roeter, on 22 March 2021 - 02:51 AM, said:

This discussion goes back a VERY long way, some 10 years to be precise. Then, the same arguments were raised as now. ...

Was this discussion here at ET and is there a chance to get the link to it? Or at least a hint how one can find the according thread? Thanks.

[roeter]

Here is one thread.

And here is another thread.

There may have been more, but these are the ones that came up in my search.

Regards,
Rob Roeterdink

[jonas]

Thank you Rob responding that fast.

[jonas]

 roeter, on 31 March 2021 - 12:04 PM, said:

Here is one thread. ... And here is another thread. ...

After almost reading all the posts of the threads, or (to be honest :-) rather explicitly searching the threads for expressions of requests for using the G key, I'm impressed how many signal and path questions had to be discussed about setting switches so far. In combination with the possible game modes such as Explore or Manual mode, you quickly come to a confusing number of possibilities. The test protocol here alone was impressive, which shows the enormous amount of work. So many thanks in retrospect to everyone involved and Rob! Even after such a long time :-)

Perhaps we should limit the considerations for the G key in this thread to the modes "- Explore Route -" or the Manual mode in "+ Explore in Activity Mode +".

@Carlo, before any further programming work arises, I would like to remind everyone of the question on which this thread is based and ask to all:

When is it necessary to set trailing switches with the G key?! Is there anyone who explicitly set trailing switches in this way, regardless of the mode while gaming?

Please keep in mind that it is explicitly about the G key and not about ALT + Mouse or the map window or the click on a switch symbol in F8 Window (or even setting a trailing switch by stubbornly driving over it with your own train :-). So it's not about the general question of whether a player (or the AI) wants to or can set a trailing switches at all, but only about whether it has to be with the G key (or SHIFT-G).

Personally, I can't think of a game situation when one would have to set a trailing switch with the G button, regardless of whether it is in front of the train or behind it, regardless of the mode (Explore | Activity | Signal | Manual). That's why I believe that Weter had named the topic description as "Is it realy needed?".

I would also like to remind you that there is an obvious simple use of the G key in MSTS. It only sets facing switches, always the next one in front of the train (even in the F8 window, it is not possible to set trailing switches in MSTS, although these are also displayed there). MSTS has many weaknesses and I do not want to call for them to be imitated here, but here I have to admit that MSTS works better.

So here again for further basicaly reflection on this thread here:

In which game situations is it necessary to set trailing switches with the G key?

I can't think of any, but I'm of cause only one of us and my imagination is limited. Can anyone name an example?

[Weter]

Jonas, I impressed how you analyzed the problem and brilliant formulated it's related questions.
I couldn't do that better, but all these-are just what I was concerned with, and even deeper.
Thank you very much for developing this topic and support my question.

[roeter]

Two possible reasons :

• In unsignalled areas, it might be necessary to align a trailing switch as these are not automatically aligned to the player's train path.
  If this is not wanted, the logic must be changed such that trailing switches will always align with the player's train path in unsignalled areas similar as to the behaviour in signalled areas.
  
• In MANUAL mode (with AI traffic), it may be required to reset a trailing switch against the player's path to 'free' it for AI trains.
  If there is no signal 'closing off' the area where the player train is shunting in Manual mode, the switch giving access to that area may remain reserved for the player train thus blocking AI traffic. By resetting that switch against the player's path it is released for AI trains.

Regards,
Rob Roeterdink