[steved]

In real life it is entirely possible to throw a trailing point switch the wrong way causing a lot of vibration in the cab.
I don't see what needs to be changed.

Randy

[jonas]

 Weter, on 21 March 2021 - 12:54 PM, said:

...
And how should I understand the answer of James?

I cannot speak for James.
All I can say is that the function of the G key in MSTS is optimal for me as route builder and tester. The G key only toggle switches that are branching ahead - never trailing switches.

[jonas]

 steved, on 21 March 2021 - 01:37 PM, said:

In real life it is entirely possible to throw a trailing point switch the wrong way causing a lot of vibration in the cab.
I don't see what needs to be changed.

For me is this G-key topic not a question of how it is in real life, since we are dealing with simulators, it is above all a question of playability.
If we use real life as a measure here, all I can say is that there is no G key in a locomotive. It has to do with playability for me and says little about the simulator's closeness to reality.
I can think of almost no reason when I would have needed to throw a trailing switch. And if I had to do that (which, if at all, is only possible in OR, not in MSTS), then it was mostly when my locomotive was stopped or was driving very slowly. In this situation I can use the Alt key + mouse.
But in a fast moving train I expect the G key to guide me to the next branching track, no matter how many trailing switches are up to the branching track in between.

[Csantucci]

I think that the trailing switch setting could be left as feature, but with a specific 2- or 3-key combination, while the actual keys would be used only to throw leading switches.

[roeter]

This discussion goes back a VERY long way, some 10 years to be precise. Then, the same arguments were raised as now.
The outcome of that discussion was that in non-signalled areas, the switches would be left as they were either by default or as set by the last train running over that switch, and trailing switches would therefor not align automatically. In signalled areas, on the other hand, if a signal clears over a specific route, then it is to be expected that all switches in that route are properly aligned, including trailing switches.
I see no reasons to change this behaviour. Now, as then, some people want this and others want something else, that's just the way things are. But this behaviour is reasonable and fairly realistic. Of course there is no 'switch throwing' button in trains (there is in trams!), but there is someone out there throwing the switches, and that someone will have to throw both facing and trailing switches (except for spring points, but those are rare in yards).
As even in the sim we cannot be two 'someones' at once, the switch throwing button is a substitute for the other someone.
But if you want to do things properly, you get out of the engine (camera 8), walk along the track setting the switches with the mouse, and then walk back to the train. And nowadays, the driver will stay alongside the track and work the engine with remote radio-control. But he will have to set both leading and trailing switches.

Regards,
Rob Roeterdink

[eric from trainsim]

Regardless of the financial impact or the inevitable firing, it would still be nice to have a way to deal with the next facing point switch...

Perhaps the G key logic be smart enough to ignore a trailing point switch that is already open and action the next facing point? It's conditional logic, but operationally sound...

[jonas]

 roeter, on 22 March 2021 - 02:51 AM, said:

This discussion goes back a VERY long way, some 10 years to be precise. Then, the same arguments were raised as now.
...
Now, as then, some people want this and others want something else, that's just the way things are. But this behaviour is reasonable and fairly realistic.
...

I doubt that the opinion of the people is that balanced about the issue of G keys function. But I've only been here for 7 years and unfortunately I don't know the discussion 10 year before about it.

At the risk of repeating myself, I would like to summarize it again as objectively as possible:
•Thankfully, switches can be thrown in different ways in OR - with the dispatcher window, with the help of the mouse or with the G key.
•The G key is the fastest and easiest way to throw a switch - a single finger movement while driving!
•In OR, the G key always throw the next switch ahead, regardless of whether it is a facing or trailing switch - unlike in MSTS.

I very much believe that in the vast majority of game situations there is a need to set facing switches instead of trailing switches.
Hence the questions:
•Why does the easiest way with the G key not always throw the next facing switch only?
•Of course, it is realistic to also be able to throw trailing switches, but isn't the way using Cam 8 + mouse sufficient for this?
•How often does it happen that a player wants to throw a trailing switch (or even has to)?
•How often does it happen that a player wants to throw a facing switch?

I think the last two questions are the important questions.

 Csantucci, on 22 March 2021 - 02:06 AM, said:

I think that the trailing switch setting could be left as feature, but with a specific 2- or 3-key combination, while the actual keys would be used only to throw leading switches.

That would be an optimal key function for me.

[roeter]

 jonas, on 22 March 2021 - 06:24 AM, said:

I very much believe that in the vast majority of game situations there is a need to set facing switches instead of trailing switches.

I believe that in the vast majority of game situations people use paths and have no need to throw switches at all.
Manually throwing switches is a 'last resort' on unscheduled shunt work, not operational running.

Regards,
Rob Roeterdink

[jonas]

 roeter, on 22 March 2021 - 02:51 AM, said:

This discussion goes back a VERY long way, some 10 years to be precise. Then, the same arguments were raised as now.
The outcome of that discussion was that in non-signalled areas, the switches would be left as they were either by default or as set by the last train running over that switch, and trailing switches would therefor not align automatically. In signalled areas, on the other hand, if a signal clears over a specific route, then it is to be expected that all switches in that route are properly aligned, including trailing switches.
I see no reasons to change this behaviour.
...

I see it the same way, but in my eyes it has more or less nothing to do with the G key issue. Maybe a programer will see this some what different, but from the prospectiv of a player it can stay as it is like you describe it.

[jonas]

 roeter, on 22 March 2021 - 06:36 AM, said:

I believe that in the vast majority of game situations people use paths and have no need to throw switches at all.
Manually throwing switches is a 'last resort' on unscheduled shunt work, not operational running. ...

I am not exactly sure what do you mean by that. That the issue should now be over?
Maybe it was misleading what I wrote, but of course I didn't mean the general game situation, but always the special case that you want to (or have to) set a switch at all. About this case I am writing here.