[NickonWheels]

Let the images talk...

Here we observe that the stoker is the only thing causing steam consumption. Maybe this is correct, but in reality the blower is activated when idling, something the AI fireman does not take into account (also true for safety valves)...


Here, about 10 minutes later the amount of coal in the tender is still the same, which is wrong as the water needs a constant flow of energy to stay evaporated, independent of fuel calorific values which I may have to test. I have´nt driven oil-fired steamers for a while because of this.

Regarding the burn rate curve that has no influnce upon the fuel quantity value. Also where we can get the values from?
Regarding boiler lagging; yes I tested those lines but to no avail.

[Traindude]

Some more resources regarding the use of mechanical stokers:

Standard Dupont Simplex Stoker
Duplex Stoker
Berkley Stokers (Pages 638 to 640)
Hanna Stokers
Standard Stokers (Pages 642 to 645)
Standard MB Stoker Diagram
Standard HT Stoker Diagram
Standard BK Stoker Diagram
Elvin Stoker (Pages 176 to 180)
Hanna Stoker Diagram
"Street" Stoker Diagram
1944 Suggested Unit Course in Locomotive Firing--Stokers (Pages 29 to 49)

BTW: Just to clarify what I mean by "The Stoker should not be used while idling", I have highlihgted the following quotes from the 1944 firing guide:

[ATSF3751]

All right lets sum up what needs to be done and what is being worked on for Steam Locomotives in Open Rails

Things in progress

- New Smoke
- Sparks/burning embers
- Steam Locomotive Per Axle Wheel Radius (many steam locomotives have different sized wheel on different trucks - sometimes on the same truck)

Future

- Chuffing/synchronized sound
- Reverser Animation

What needs to be fixed/Updated with Coding

- BTU
- Coal and Water consumption
- Stoker/Hand Fired
- Working Blower
- Factor of Adhesion
- Steam Locomotive Wheel Slip Animation Needs to be Retarded to Behave More Prototypical-
- Blow down for both sides of locomotive simultaneously
- Feed Water Heaters/injectors
- Updated Fire Modeling Physics

Eventually would like coded

- Working boosters
- Steam and smoke effected by cold or weather
- More then one whistle/Horn button
- More Light Switches to Accommodate Class Lights.

If anyone else can think of more please feel free to add.

Brandon

[Traindude]

 ATSF3751, on 20 January 2021 - 02:06 PM, said:

All right lets sum up what needs to be done and what is being worked on for Steam Locomotives in Open Rails

Things in progress

- New Smoke
- Sparks/burning embers
- Steam Locomotive Per Axle Wheel Radius (many steam locomotives have different sized wheel on different trucks - sometimes on the same truck)

Future

- Chuffing/synchronized sound
- Reverser Animation

What needs to be fixed/Updated with Coding

- BTU
- Coal and Water consumption
- Stoker/Hand Fired
- Working Blower
- Factor of Adhesion
- Steam Locomotive Wheel Slip Animation Needs to be Retarded to Behave More Prototypical-
- Blow down for both sides of locomotive simultaneously
- Feed Water Heaters/injectors
- Updated Fire Modeling Physics

Eventually would like coded

- Working boosters
- Steam and smoke effected by cold or weather
- More then one whistle/Horn button
- More Light Switches to Accommodate Class Lights.

If anyone else can think of more please feel free to add.

Brandon

Don't forget oil firing! Not sure if that counts with "Updated Fire Modeling Physics"...

[ATSF3751]

What I don't get at all is why didn't the Open Rails team just keep in the old MSTS Auto firing and then modify the coding at a later date? The Auto Firing was much better then what we have right now and I feel like they have kind of gone backwards in that respect. The blower doesn't work, they don't open the firebox doors or hand fire yet and all steamers are just run on stokers? I mean COME ON!!!!!

Brandon

[copperpen]

Without reverse engineering the old MSTS code it is difficult to guess exactly how the autofiring was done, so the easy way out was taken to provide a continuous stoker effect.. Not ideal and hard to get correct fuel economy out of different locomotives. A very long time ago I did suggest a possible method of implementing auto manual firing but it was never followed up. Instead of maintaining a perfect firemass I suggested that the firemass volume should move between defined parameters and firing take place when the lower figure is reached and stop at the higher figure with these figures being determined by the user. If no data is provided by the user, a default set is applied calculated from the grate area.

[NickonWheels]

 Traindude, on 20 January 2021 - 03:46 PM, said:

Don't forget oil firing! Not sure if that counts with "Updated Fire Modeling Physics"...

Oil-firing is mo different from coal or wood firing except of cource higher energy content and also mechanical assistance to get it into the firebox; this is one case where is 'stoker' really needs to run all the time.

And don´t forget better definition of wheel arrangement/diameter.

[ATSF3751]

Another thing I missed is safety valves that work. The boiler never gets above its operating pressure to make the safety valves go off.

Brandon

[scottb613]

 ATSF3751, on 21 January 2021 - 05:22 AM, said:

Another thing I missed is safety valves that work. The boiler never gets above its operating pressure to make the safety valves go off.

Brandon

Hi Brandon,

The curse of the perfect fireman.
;)

Go to manual firing and they blow off immediately.

Regards,
Scott

[darwins]

Quote

Oil-firing is no different from coal or wood firing except of course higher energy content and also mechanical assistance to get it into the firebox; this is one case where is 'stoker' really needs to run all the time.

Oil firing has some significant differences from coal or wood firing. Most importantly for the OR model the boiler response is much faster - when you increase the oil supply more heat is immediately available, whereas if you shovel on more coal then the heat is not available to the boiler until the coal has burned through. The reverse applies when you stop firing. (A bit like the difference of cooking with gas and cooking with electricity.)

Quote

The boiler never gets above its operating pressure to make the safety valves go off.

This one is a bit naughty. If you study the figures in the extended HuD the safety valves should go off sometimes with the AI fireman.
There are numbers there for stored energy and max energy - if stored energy exceeds max energy the boiler should blow off.
With the AI fireman the safety valves are actually locked - you can watch stored energy rise above max energy at times - but the boiler just takes it without either the pressure rising above the max boiler pressure or the safety valves lifting. (Compare that to manual firing.)
I think you can kill this feature by switching to manual and then back again. You can also kill it with the start and stop firing commands.


That brings into question the behaviour of the safety valves - I am not sure it is realistic - as Coronavirus restrictions in UK are going to keep me away from steam loco footplates for some time to come, I will not be able to observe in person. So I would like to discuss this with anyone who has fired a real loco. Do we have any actual firemen on this thread?