[copperpen]

The steam locomotive exhaust look and colour are linked to several things. Do we use the old MSTS ace file in a much better way than at present, or look for another method?.

First of all, exhaust velocity, whilst standing still this is produced by the draft through the fire. Faster and stronger with the blower running. Slower but still with velocity with no blower, rather like the old domestic coal fire. Next, when moving velocity and thus height are controlled by the pressure leaving the cylinders and exiting the stack, minus any back pressure generated in the system. In some locomotives because of the exhaust design this results in a high towering smoke effect and in others a much lower softer exhaust is produced when working.

Smoke/steam colour difference is a result of firing the locomotive, add fuel and you get smoke mixed with the steam as volatiles are burnt off. Observe any locomotive where hand firing is done and you will see this. OIl burners and coal stoker fed alternatives are different in how the stack emission looks. At present all OR steam locomotives are using an approximation of a non-stop mechanical stoker,

Steam emissions from other sources on a locomotive require something different than the current application of the same ace file as the exhaust to be anywhere close to convincing in look.

[ATSF3751]

Yes this is exactly what has been bugging me and I may have a crack at it to fix some myself once I figure out the coding for Open Rails. I feel we need to have 2 separate types of smoke as I stated previously and maybe start from scratch because what we have right now is nothing to what it could look like.

Brandon

[darwins]

Very happy if some one can improve the steam smoke effects.

In UK vacuum brake ejectors exhausted up the chimney so would have the same effect as the blower - on some older British locos the blower and the small ejector were one and the same.

Although much of the input for smoke is there - OR does not currently model the effect of secondary air (through firebox doors) so this would need to be added in later, when manual firing is further developed.

[ATSF3751]

Hey everyone,

I just got done talking to a friend of mine who used to be a programmer and is also a major railfan. We were talking about how to incorporate the puffing aspect of the smoke into the simulator. I believe this can already be done with a little bit of tweaking of the source files. The process of what we came up with is to interrogate the blasting of the smoke to the placement of where the rods are every quarter turn.

The smoke output would still be controlled by the throttle as it is at the moment and then further advancements would be made at a later date. I believe we also would need 2 different smoke outputs in order for this to work. One for the steam and another for the smoke.

The smoke color would still be controlled by the way it is being fired and advancement in the stoker/non stoker needs to be done as well along with blower and other valuables that would be put into play.

Let me know what you guys think of this idea and if it would be possible to implement this into the coding.

Brandon

[steamer_ctn]

scottb613, on 17 January 2021 - 07:09 AM, said:

I think Peter is the only ORTS developer changing the steam code - he was willing to do all the coding - what he asked of other participants was data research and methodic testing of changes. I'm not sure if he's still active as I haven't noticed any recent posts from him.

Yes, I am still active, and I am currently working on a straight vacuum brake system (Eames brake).

scottb613, on 17 January 2021 - 06:33 AM, said:

From my testing - I don’t think the injectors have any effect on steam production while they had a substantial effect in MSTS. You had to be very careful in MSTS when you added water and from which injector - as it could kill you on a climb. ORTS doesn’t care - run one or both continually and you will make steam just fine.

Injector input does have an impact in OR. It will reduce the temperature of the water in the boiler, and hence reduce the steam production rate.

As has been pointed out different injector systems inject different temperature water into the boiler. Typically water temperature and water injection rates vary with injector size, and steam pressure. Getting accurate information for each of the different feed system types has been a challenge to date. I managed to get some data from a manufacturers leaflet, so the current OR version is modeled on this injector. Part of the challenge is that each facet of the locomotive requires a certain degree of specialization.

As Scott has pointed out, I try to ensure that all my physic code additions are based upon a solid physics base (good data and test results) to ensure that the accuracy of the OR steam physics is as close as possible to reality.

ATSF3751, on 17 January 2021 - 06:41 AM, said:

I have also talked to Peter as well and I am willing to help him out as much as I am able too. However I do not know coding so I wont be able to help out in that respect but obtaining hard data I could look for. The major thing that I have been asking for is the smoke. We need 2 different smoke/steam effects. One for the appliances and the other for the stack and cylinders. That is one major thing that really bugs me about Open Rails and that fact that the smoke does not blast out of the stack when you have the throttle wide open. For the smoke to look right it needs to be effected by wind, throttle, how it is being fired, and the blower.

In regards to the smoke and steam effects, I have had added a number of steam/smoke/water effects, but they are all reliant on the current particle emitter. The particle emitters are more of a "visual" effect in OR, and I do not have expertise in recoding or understanding of this section of OR. The movement of the smoke as you describe is a separate set of physics properties and coding would be independent of the locomotive. I am happy to provide locomotive physics inputs for these visual effects, but it would have to be set up to take them.

It would be necessary to find a developer with an interest and expertise in visual presentation of objects.

[ATSF3751]

Doing a little research last night on the subject of smoke and this is what we need. Something like this to create a new smoke output!

Brandon

https://codepen.io/S...xxxx/pen/YWJpwx

[NickonWheels]

scottb613, on 17 January 2021 - 09:18 AM, said:

Since this is a list - a couple of mine:

• Steam Locomotive Wheel Slip Animation Needs to be Retarded to Behave More Prototypical.
  
• Steam Locomotive Per Axle Wheel Radius (many steam locomotives have different sized wheel on different trucks - sometimes on the same truck).
  
• Feedwater System Physics.
  
• AI Train Automatic Cylinder Cock Operation (say anytime slower than 15 MPH?).
  
• Cylinder Cocks for Articulated Locomotives.
  
• Improved Injector Physics.
  
• More Light Switches to Accommodate Class Lights.
  
• Booster Trucks.
  
• Rod Animation on Tenders for Booster Trucks (haven't tested - maybe it works already?).
  
• Fire Modeling Physics.
  
• Ability to Define Each Headout Initial Position/Direction in ENG File.

I have to add realistic coal and water consumption; the current system is just undescribeabably bad. As well as individual wheel diameters for each axle, something for the engine section.

[ATSF3751]

Thank you! Another aspect I would like to see is different types of fuel like wood, coal and oil along with BTU burning rate for wood and coal. Also the different types of wood, coal and oil that are used.

I feel we need more people willing to work on steam locomotives for OR! I am willing to help out any way I can and even learn the coding process if i am able to figure it out so I can help more.

Brandon

[NickonWheels]

ORTS already utilises a line where you could enter BTU values, but under the current system this is not used properly, same with the calculated burn rate/feed rate.

[ATSF3751]

Yes I agree with you that we do need better fueling and consumption calculations.

I also feel the factor of Adhesion is not set up correctly either. Here in the US most steam locomotive stats tell you what the Adhesion is but there is no place to put it in the Eng file.

I have many friends and connections with guys who work on mainline and tourist steam locomotives here in the US that I am sure many of them would help me out with questions regarding specific things.

It would be great if we could assemble a team just for steam locomotives for Open Rails so Peter doesn't feel like he is doing this all by himself.

Brandon