Elvas Tower: Idea--Automatic Rear Marker Lights - Elvas Tower

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Idea--Automatic Rear Marker Lights AKA Taillights, FREDs, etc. Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   Traindude 

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Posted 22 November 2020 - 10:32 AM

Quote

"A marker or markers must be displayed at the rear of every train and may consist of flags, lamps, lights or reflectorized devices.

At night, markers must display an illuminated or reflectorized red to the rear."

-AAR Standard Code of Operating Rules, Rule 19.


Here's an idea of how marker lights can be improved, if not incorporated, for use in OR. The same can be said for FREDs or taillights in other regions or eras. Although .eng file "unit" lighting conditions and freight animations can already do this to some degree, my idea comes into play whenever a car or cars are added to or subtracted from the train--so they are automatically added to the rear of the rear car.

1. At the start of the activity, rear markers are automatically added to the rear car of the consist (non-static) where appropriate (in particular, they are only added to the rear of passenger cars, cabooses, tenders and locos as per rule 19). Unless the markers are permanently attached to the car, these markers are a separate shape file (example: "markers.s") similar to a freight animation, but they have their own lighting emitters, and can freely move between cars as cars are coupled or uncoupled from the consist.

2. When a new car is coupled to the rear of the consist, the markers will automatically disappear from the rear of the original rear car, and reappear at the rear of the new rear car. If a cut of two or more cars is coupled to the rear, the markers move to the rear of the rearmost car in the cut.

3. When a car or cars are uncoupled from the rear of the consist, the markers automatically disappear from the rear of the uncoupled car (or the rearmost car in a cut of multiple cars), and reappear at the rear of the new rear car.

Here's a drawing I made to illustrate my concept:
https://i.ibb.co/PFmXYLz/ormarkers.png

I will add a Trello card when I get enough feedback.

#2 User is offline   Rj Zondervan 

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Posted 22 November 2020 - 01:35 PM

I have been philosophising over a similar functionality myself, but I never came to a full agreement with myself about the extend of this kind of functionality, because I could endlessly come up with extra possibilities. But here are my thoughts:

In the first place, I would like this kind of functionality, however, if we reason about it, we would see that there is a bunch of other parts of a train that can deviate between a carriage or wagon that is coupled at both sides and an end-car. Take for example the traditional 'chain' or 'screw' couplers used here in Europe, but also for example gaiters between two carriages.
Then I realised that in earlier times, when reflective surfaces were harder to come by, the signals on the end of the train (the markers as you call it) had to be changed around sunset from marker signs to lamps, so it would also be nice to have the possibility to switch the freightanim during the activity, for a predefined different marker. Which then opened the way in my mind for carriages that crossed borders (for example, in the 1930s the Dutch railway law required a train to have three markers (signs at day, lamps at night) on the train. One of those markers was a red disk or a red lantern placed underneath the buffer or the coupler hook, the other two should either be placed on the widest part of the train, or above the roof. These two lamps should have a red light to the rear, and a green (later yellow) light to the front. The Belgian law only required a single sign or lantern on the rear of the train), so it would also be nice to be able to define multiple signal sets for different countries etc etc.

Well, you see, I started to come up with more and more functionality that would be nice to have and ended up discarding the plan for being too large and infeasible.

However, I did have a start of a plan to implement this kind of functionality. You see, in the ORTSFreightAnim we can define Subtypes. What if we could define these subtypes somewhere?
If we could define that the subtype so that the type would only be used on the last vehicle, or the first vehicle or all vehicles, we would start getting somewhere. In the case of couplers and gaiters we would need to define that the subtype would be necessary on all vehicles, but then define what shape is used in what case, for example: shape A for all vehicles that are coupled on both sides, B for vehicles on the rear of the train, C for vehicles on the front of the train, and D for vehicles that are uncoupled.
From there on we could be thinking of incrementing the logic of these cases, for example for gaiters the logic from the coupler would be duplicated, but then the condition should not only be 'coupled on side x', but 'coupled on side x to a vehicle that has the same subtype defined' etc.
Finally you could think of a dialog box somewhere in the sim where you could choose to add, replace or remove certain freight anims from the vehicle, which would also add the possibility to, for example, to choose between a set of marker types, but also to change the destination signs on your train.

So, my plan of attack would be the following:
  • Create the possibility to define freightanim subtypes and simple characteristics, like if they are required, and if they should be shown at day or night
  • Increment the definable logic to the extend that you can define if a type of freightanim is required on all, front or rear vehicles
  • Add the possibility to define lights for ORTSFreightAnims
  • Increment the definable logic to the extend that you could define for a subtype what shape should be shown for what condition with simple conditions, like front, back, uncoupled or center vehicles
  • Extend the conditions to more dependencies, for example the presence of a freight anim of the same subtype at the coupled vehicle.
  • Add the possibility to choose between freight anims of the same subtype in a in game dialog. This would require to define in the subtype if the subtype is mutual exclusive (that is: could there be more freight anims of the same type on the same vehicle or not), and read the statement if and when a subtype is required, so that on a carriage in the center of a train we would not need to choose an end marker, but can choose between multiple destination signs etc.


However, I think this would have to wait until a new engine/wagon file format is in place. I am willing to help design the file format on this point, however, I would really need to find some time to add C# to my skills (which contains quite some programming languages in different abstraction levels, but not C#) to help implement it.
Additionally, because I realise this is a lot of work, I would define the blue points as 'can haves' in the MoSCoW method, while the other points could be 'should haves', but I respect if both are scaled down a step to won't haves and can haves respectively.

Just my 2 cents on a functionality that would be a step in the right direction, but might have a lot of implications.

#3 User is offline   R H Steele 

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Posted 22 November 2020 - 01:36 PM

Would a FRED also fit in with your suggestions? I've often thought there should be a user selected FRED that could be applied by the users. Perhaps, a user saved option or configuration.

#4 User is offline   darwins 

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Posted 22 November 2020 - 01:38 PM

I have already posted two related suggestions on Trello.

Firstly the idea of conditional freight anims. We have conditional lights at the moment - so we can make the red light appear on the last vehicle - if we could do the same with freight anims - have the lamp itself show up only on the last vehicle I think that is what you have suggested.

Trello 1

A further development of this would be to allow time table commands to change freight anims. This would allow head and tail lamps to change ends when a unit is reversed at a terminus and destination boards or headcodes to be changed:
Trello 2

#5 User is offline   Traindude 

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Posted 22 November 2020 - 02:23 PM

View PostR H Steele, on 22 November 2020 - 01:36 PM, said:

Would a FRED also fit in with your suggestions? I've often thought there should be a user selected FRED that could be applied by the users. Perhaps, a user saved option or configuration.


Yup! It also counts as a marker according to the AAR's rule 19.

#6 User is offline   ErickC 

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Posted 25 November 2020 - 10:26 PM

Remember also that an EOT device is powered by a small air turbine and thus makes a fair bit of noise, meaning we would also need the ability to specify an SMS file for the object. You'd also need to be able to slave the FRED to the coupler, which may or may not be mobile depending on the developer (and depending on when the standard version of OR gets the advanced coupler features, which includes the separate coupler shape).

#7 User is offline   Weter 

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Posted 26 November 2020 - 02:51 PM

Thanks for noise origin's explanation, now I see, what is that I've noted, using SLI scenery route.
Does sayed turbine be feeded from BP?

#8 User is offline   darwins 

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Posted 29 November 2020 - 11:01 PM

I have just had a thought about this that could also be used for other 'choices' for eng and wag files - see new thread http://www.elvastowe...ude-statements/

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