[Csantucci]

I'd like to investigate whether it is possible to me to implement cruise control, in a first phase for electric locomotives.
I briefly explain here how this is implemented in locomotives in my country, and would like to know if this is the same as in other countries.
Such locomotives maintain a traditional combined control throttle-dynamic brake, which is steered by a lever called LCM, but drivers usually use the two levers for the cruise control, that is levers LV and LCA.
LV sets the target speed, and has 4 positions from front to rear, that is +, n, - and 0. Normally the lever is in the n position. When moved to +, it increments by 1 the speed in Kph. If held there, speed continues incrementing. When released, the lever returns to the n position. When the lever is moved to -, it behaves the same way by decrementing the target speed. When the lever is moved to 0, target speed is immediately set to 0.
LCA defines the force (tractive or dynamic) to be applied to reach the target speed. The 0 position is the one nearest to the driver, while moving the lever forwards increments the tractive or dynamic force.
Does this coincide with cruise control in other countries?

[Stijn D.C.]

Hello,

In france you have VI (Vitesse Imposeé), In Germany you have different variations of AFB

In my country Belgium we use VI and AFB. + 1 locomotive class have cruisecontrolled trottle. (But this locomotive have tensionlever too)

In some country's like Tjech, they have a more extended cruisecontrol.


In case cruise control you must have option for have dynamic braking or not, not every train handle dynamic brake by select lower speed (of when conist drive faster than setspeed).

Same with normal airbrakes.

example:

Locomotive A with cruisecontrol on tractionlever: locomotive have dynamic brakeoption, but not on cruisecontrolmode.

Locomotive B with VI cruisecontrol: locomotive have dynamic brake, and use only dynamic brake for slow down. (if driver set lower speed, or train drive to fast)

Locomotive C with AFB cruisecontrol: locomotive have dynamic brake, and use only dynamic brake for slow down. (if driver set lower speed, or train drive to fast)

Locomotive D with AFB (variation) cruisecontrol: locomotive have dynamicbrake, and use air & dynamic brakes for slow down. (if driver set lower speed, or train drive to fast),

In this case train drive with trainbrakesystem in blended mode with "bail off" option.


Most cruisecontrols (VI) you have on/off button, and speed selector. And when throttle is on zero, there happend nothing, but if driver handle throttle this set acceleration.


Important is too, that if there are more locomotives in consist (MU connnected) that locomotives of same class do the same.


If i look to some coountry's like Tjech and most international systems, i think we need a cruisecontrol system based on trainbrake/circuitbreaker script integration.

for most international systems i dont see problem, but what by systems like they use in tjech, they need more keys… (Is it not possible that ORTS handle NUM key codes too?)


In case Tjech system, Jindrich was good busy for that. That is why i prefer that users that will use a expanded/specific cruisecontrol system, kan give command rule in .eng file

Standard ORTS cruisecontrol can have just have on/off button and speedselector.

And in .eng files some command rules for give up what cruise control must do by select lower speed (dynamic brake, airbrake, nothing).


Cruisecontrol with Throttle maybe this is possible with ORTSThrottle scripting?

in real: this locomotive (max. 160km/h) have a Throttle and tension lever. Tensionlever is for set Depart tension (KiloNewtons), Throttle have

16 numbers: 1/2/3/4.../16 1 = 10km/h, 2= 20km,..., 16=160km/h


ORTS have need a Tensionlever too


You know that i was testing cruisecontrol of Jindrich too, soo in that time i have made this as feedback:


 HLE 20 Tractionwheel.pdf (277.13K)
Number of downloads: 1003

 ORTS Traction & Tensionlever System.pdf (287.25K)
Number of downloads: 1075


It can be usefull to understand what i mean, but feedback was bades on code of Jindrich.


Greetz,

Stijn

[Stijn D.C.]

Keyboardcombinations i suggest and prefer: (AZERTY BE)

Cruisecontrol ON: SHIFT + Z

Cruisecontrol OFF: SHIFT + S

Speed selector +: CTRL + SHIFT + D

Speed selector -: CTRL + SHIFT + Q

SHIFT + D & SHIFT + Q, i prefer for a tensionlever.


On QWERTY keyboard:


Cruisecontrol ON: SHIFT + A

Cruisecontrol OFF: SHIFT + S

Speed selector +: CTRL + SHIFT + D

Speed selector -: CTRL + SHIFT + A

SHIFT + D & SHIFT + A, i prefer for a tensionlever.

------------------------------------------------------

For .eng file (lowercasetokens) i based me on some (changed) commands of Jindrich his cruisecontrolsystem but they are not same:

ORTSCruiseControl (
Equipped ( True ) => Locomotive have cruisecontrol or not
AntiWheelSpinEquipped ( False ) AntiWheelslipcontrol or not
NominalSpeedStep ( 10 ) => How speeds of speedselector must be, in this case 10/20/30...
SpeedUnits ( km/h ) km/h or mph
ThrottleIsSpeedSelectorAndAutomaticOn ( True ) For locomotives with automatic cruisecontrol on Throttle
DynamicBrakeSpeedDown ( True ) When only Dynamic brakes must slow down locomotive
TrainBrakeSpeedDown ( False ) When Trainbrake (And if trainbrake is blended, dynamic brakes too) must slow down locomotive
...
)
)



Greetz,

Stijn

[darwins]

For examples from UK look at the class 90 and class 91 on the Dawlish Trains site.
Next to the speedometer they have a speed selector that looks like a second smaller speedometer - the driver points the needle at the selected speed.
The loco will maintain that speed provided that sufficient power is available - as far as I know the speed selector does not over ride the throttle setting.
Therefore the throttle position will dictate the maximum rate of acceleration and the maximum available power, whereas the speed control will ensure that the selected speed is not exceeded and will reduce power or apply the dynamic brakes as required.
Section 7 of the driver's manual describes the operation of this system.
There are three controls used:
(1) Throttle - controls the maximum power available

(2) Train brake - combined dynamic brake and air brake
(3) Speed control - driver selects speed 5 / 10 / 15 / 20 .... 110 mph


I like the general idea proposed by Stijn but would suggest some changes


( 1 ) I am not sure that

AntiWheelSpinEquipped ( False ) AntiWheelslipcontrol or not
should be included here. Some locos that do not have cruise control do have antislip control. It would be good if we could get the Antislip ( 1 ) to work in ORTS as it does not seem to at present, also we should have an ORTSAntiskid ( ) for brakes as many modern trains have a feature to prevent the brakes from locking.

( 2 ) I do not think
Equipped ( True ) => Locomotive have cruisecontrol or not

will be needed. Default is not to have speed control and therefore any loco that does not include the

ORTSCruiseControl ( .... )
in the eng file will automatically not be equipped and any loco that does include that section will follow the rules that Stijn proposes. So for the British class 90 or 91 this would be:
ORTSCruiseControl (
NominalSpeedStep ( 5 )
SpeedUnits ( mph )
ThrottleIsSpeedSelectorAndAutomaticOn ( 0 )
DynamicBrakeSpeedDown ( 1 )
TrainBrakeSpeedDown ( 0 )
)

[darwins]

Just realise I should qualify what I said about antislip ( ) not working -
At present it physically moves the throttle handle to a lower setting, where it remains unless the driver moves it up again.
My understanding of the operation in real locomotives is that power is reduced when a slip is detected, but the throttle position remains unchanged, when the slip is corrected the system tries again to restore power to the throttle position.
I believe this has been mentioned elsewhere on ET.

[Csantucci]

Thanks for the very useful inputs. Stijn reminded me that Jindrich has worked (is working?) on that, see here http://www.elvastowe...eed-regulation/ . So I'll first ask him if he wants to share his code, in order not to re-invent the wheel.

[Stijn D.C.]

Csantucci, on 29 March 2020 - 07:14 AM, said:

Thanks for the very useful inputs. Stijn reminded me that Jindrich has worked (is working?) on that, see here http://www.elvastowe...eed-regulation/ . So I'll first ask him if he wants to share his code, in order not to re-invent the wheel.

Was you forgot that Jindrich has work on this ? That explains youre topic start ;-)


Some things of my Lowercasetokens are based on Jindrich his Cruisecontrol system.


But Carlo, can you look to the idea for have that tensionlever have?

Some old trains have a throttelever AND tenstionlever too, for me tensionlever must manipulate:

MaxForce ( 288kN )
MaxContinuousForce ( 288kN ) => i think this not works in ORTS

If there is interest for made this, i of someone else can start topic about this Tensionlever? Becauze there are like cruisecontrol different options.


Greetz,

Stijn

[Csantucci]

Hi Stijn,
here in Italy all new trains have a throttle/dynamic brake lever AND a force lever; the latter works in conjunction with the target speed lever, so it's a case I have the intention to consider.

[Aldarion]

In Portugal, here's how it works on a CP5600 Eurosprinter (DB127 type):

After occuping the cabin, making all tests and releasing the brakes:

-Turn the AFB switch to VI position. In the display a pictogram is shown confirming the selection.

-Turn the VI lever to desired position. on activating this, there is a small orange pointer in the speedometer that turns from 0 to 220 km/h

-Turn the traction/dynamic brake lever to full traction.

-Release the train brakes

And you're off.
Activating the Train brakes or moving the traction/dynamic brake lever to dynamic brake quadrant will deactivate the cruise control. to regain cruise control the T/DB must be set to 0 and release train brakes.

To maintain the desired speed on descend the teorethical value for TE is reduced . If that is not enough the VI system will comute directly to a dynamic braking. As soon as 70% of dynamic braking effort is used, then the EP train brake is activated.

[Hamza97]

On Indian Railways ... ,, the 3phase WAP-7 WAG-9 locos have cruise control which can be activated by pressing BPCS button on reaching the desired speed. The system will maintain speed to +/-5kmph of the cruising speed. The cruise control system has access to 100% traction and braking force.

[Jindrich]

Hi.
Almost all I see here can be set up in my private version of OR with cruise control.
Also with new type of lever called "MultiPositionController", you can stack up positions of controller any way you wish, and also set up flags of the positions, like if it's spring loaded, need to confirm new acceleration after braking, etc. Of course it's limited by it's internal logic, but everything can be adjusted.
The system is incorporating completely redesigned UpdateMotiveForce method, witch does all the beauty. The trick is to control the force directly instead of using the throttle, which is limited to resolution of 100 steps (0-100%). Also by using throttle, to hook the CC into it will move the throttle lever, which is not real. Also the approach I am using is to calculate very accurate force needed and thus very precise speed control. It also calculate average climb/descent rate of the whole train, to react faster.
There is still option to use throttle instead of force directly. I am using this option for diesel engines, as you need also control the RPM of the diesel engine and also sound.
The CC can be configured also to use pneumatic brakes when the dynamic is not sufficient, but this is not yet perfectly tested.
Of course you can set the maximum power, described here as tension lever. It can be set by steps or by percent. With steps, you can set up a table with percentages for each step. New thing is also something we here call a "Restricted Speed" mode, which tells you, when presset, how many metres left until the whole train pass the position, where you pressed it. Usable for precise stopping by platform, by also, when you increase speed when restricted speed is active, the train will continue previous speed, until it reaches 0m point, and start to accelerate automatically.

The other thing I did is I removed the vigilance sections completely, and write my own vigilance system called "Mirel". Almost all CZ/SK locos are equipped with Mirel, an also some PL and HU.
It's a combination of signal repeater and vigilance, and I have done about 99% of its real functions according to a very detailed documentation.

Etc, etc. I have battery switch, active station selector, cargo/pax switch, splash screen possibility for modern glass cabins, automatic parking ....
I will now do re-fubrish of my code, as some sections are very dirty, then we will see what to do next.

[FloBarr]

Hi,

In France, as said, we have the VI (Vitesse imposée): it rely on a rotating lever which can take several positions: 0 - CD - CM - VI. It's use is combined with traction/braking lever.
For each position:
0: no traction or dynamic braking, on DMU and EMU i drive/drove, MPT (Manipulateur Traction Freinage - Traction Braking Lever) is locked on this position.
CD: Couplage - Désaccouplement: used to attach or detach, limiting speed around 3 km/h, no automatic dynamic brake.
CM: Commande Manuelle: the driver has full control on the traction or dynamic brake.
VI: the engineer rotate and select a speed, shown by a needle on a display. The system try to obtain the displayed speed, but is constrained by the position of le MPT. If unsufficiant power is given, the speed can't be reached. The dynamic braking is automaticaly managed.

I've read above about lever with stable AND unstable positions (0 - N +). Is this available somewhere with OR? If not, I've developped such a control for my french engines, usable for traction, traction/braking, and train brake levers (with optional emergency pos). Is this interresting? It rely on a new style definition, and is pretty easy to use.

Flo

[Laci1959]

Aldarion, on 29 March 2020 - 02:51 PM, said:

In Portugal, here's how it works on a CP5600 Eurosprinter (DB127 type):

After occuping the cabin, making all tests and releasing the brakes:

-Turn the AFB switch to VI position. In the display a pictogram is shown confirming the selection.

-Turn the VI lever to desired position. on activating this, there is a small orange pointer in the speedometer that turns from 0 to 220 km/h

-Turn the traction/dynamic brake lever to full traction.

-Release the train brakes

And you're off.
Activating the Train brakes or moving the traction/dynamic brake lever to dynamic brake quadrant will deactivate the cruise control. to regain cruise control the T/DB must be set to 0 and release train brakes.

To maintain the desired speed on descend the teorethical value for TE is reduced . If that is not enough the VI system will comute directly to a dynamic braking. As soon as 70% of dynamic braking effort is used, then the EP train brake is activated.

[Laci1959]

In Hungary, too, this system is used in SIEMENS and BOMBARDIER locomotives.

[Csantucci]

FloBarr, on 19 May 2020 - 06:09 AM, said:

Hi,

...
I've read above about lever with stable AND unstable positions (0 - N +). Is this available somewhere with OR? If not, I've developped such a control for my french engines, usable for traction, traction/braking, and train brake levers (with optional emergency pos). Is this interresting? It rely on a new style definition, and is pretty easy to use.

Flo

I'm thinking again about cruise control. I'm interested in your lever. Is it possible to get the code for it?