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Coupling Types Thoughts on coupling and uncoupling.. Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is online   darwins 

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Posted 09 March 2020 - 03:06 AM

As coupling physics are being developed, I am wondering if common ones might be linked to a fixed set of properties or if the variety of couplings possible is so large that every coupling type should be user specified.




MSTS offered three coupling types chain, automatic and bar. Other than being incompatible with each other the distinctions between them were never really clear. It would perhaps be better to thinking of couplings as four main types rather than three.




( 1 ) Manual couplings – wagons do NOT couple automatically in OR the mouse or F9 menu would need to be used to couple wagons. Brake hoses would need to be coupled and for air brakes the angle cocks would need to be opened. (Hopefully at some point angle cocks can be removed from vacuum brakes!) Manual coupling types would be:




Link and pin

Three link

Instanter

Screw coupling




( 2 ) Semi automatic couplings – wagons couple automatically in OR, but the brake hoses and other connections are made manually using the mouse or F9 menu. Plus angle cocks opened for air brakes. Semi automatic coupling types would be:




Buck-eye coupler

SA3 coupler

Ward coupler

Meat chopper




( 3 ) Fully automatic couplings – wagons couple automatically in OR, all brake pipe, MU and other connections are established upon coupling, there is no need to connect air pipes or open angle cocks – just couple up and set off without need for the F9 menu. Fully automatic types include:




Wedgelock coupling

Scharfenberg coupler

Delner coupling

BSI coupling




( 4 ) Permanent and semi-permanent couplings – these include locomotive to tender, carriages or wagons semi-permanently coupled in sets and articulated trains sharing a bogie. These do not normally need to be coupled or uncoupled in any way. I would suggest that this type of coupling should be set in eng wag and con files and should not be able to be uncoupled using the mouse or F9 menu. Couplings of this type might include:




Articulated bogies shared between vehicles

Bar couplings

Loco to tender – either bar or buffers and chains

Schaku coupling




There are some cases where semi-permanent couplings are made using other coupling types such as the SR centre buffer and chain or Alliance coupler in the middle of multiple unit trains – perhaps there should be some way to specify that trains can not be readily uncoupled at these points.




Different versions of coupling and uncoupling would be good for those who want a more detailed experience. With simple controls selected then all couplings might default to the type ( 3 ) fully automatic as this is the easiest type to use.

#2 User is offline   rickloader 

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Posted 09 March 2020 - 12:18 PM

Hi Darwin, I appreciate the fine work being done on couplings very much.
I have 2 concerns though.
First, by dividing couplers into categories, do we run the risk of getting into difficulties when model builders select incompatible types for the same coupling?
In MSTS some modelers thought that UK carriages must be "automatic" because the buckeye will couple on contact. Others declared carriage couplers "chain" because of the links in the screw coupling. So models that should have been able to couple together, couldn`t, and had to have their .eng files modded to work.
Of course, because the buckeye can drop to expose a draw hook, almost any uk coupling could couple. (until recent developments). Now, with only 3 MSTS couplings people got in a mess and you have mentioned about 15 ! So let`s be careful about compatibility rules
Second, some people will relish advanced features like connecting hoses. Others might say that coupling is /.was no part of a driver`s job, but for ground staff like shunters. or in their absence, the fireman /2nd man. It would be a pity if these "driver" types were forced to use simple controls.
My personal view is that a really good GUI would be needed to make joining hoses and chain links etc enjoyable. Do people really enjoy walking up and down trains in TSW?
I`m not wanting to dampen enthusiasm for the work on advanced coupling ; just worried that too many rules might spoil the fun.
Thanks, Rick

#3 User is online   darwins 

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Posted 09 March 2020 - 01:17 PM

Some very good points there.
Personally I would rather not have to couple hoses and open and close angle cocks. However that is already part of OR and I do not see it being removed soon, even though vacuum brakes do not have angle cocks! Also it seems you need to do this for modern trains that have fully automatic couplings.

I would very much like to see a way to disable automatic coupling. To make shunting chain coupled wagons much easier.

I would also not like it to be so easy to accidentally disconnect a tender from a locomotive or uncouple a TGV over an articulated bogie and watch one carriage proceed without wheels at one end.

To make sense of adding different coupling types OR would need to know which couplings are compatible with which other couplings.
Drophead buckeye is an excellent example of that:
(1) Drophead buckeye meets drophead buckeye = automatic coupling and buckeye physics
(2) Drophead buckeye meets screw coupling (or screw coupling meets drophead buckeye) = manual coupling and screw coupling physics
At the moment I believe OR is always choosing the rear coupler of a vehicle as the correct coupling whatever vehicle comes next. MSTS was slightly better in giving an average of the rear coupling of one vehicle and the front coupling of the next. OR could improve on that if it had some logical rules to say which type of coupling physics to use between any pair of vehicles.


#4 User is offline   rickloader 

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Posted 10 March 2020 - 01:13 AM

Still in agreement! thanks for the response. But we also need
3) drophead to 3link / instanter for tail vans added to passenger stock and mixed trains. Which is why i say we need to be careful about coupling rules - it is so easy to forget or exclude a legit combination.
I see what you mean by disabling automatic coupling for shunting - for loose shunting especially. But here the propelled wagon would not couple to the propelling loco, but it would couple automatically on contact with other wagons
(by loose shunting I mean giving uncoupled wagons a push to set them rolling on their own to couple to other wagons)
Allthough we are getting ahead of the present work on couplings, discussing advanced shunting, it is important not to "paint ourselves into a corner" in framing rules eg., what about the popular "rescue a failed multiple unit with a loco" activity. That entails prohibited coupling because of course adaptors do exist.
Shouid some coupling data reside in the activity /timetable sections rather than in physics? (So the activity would disable coupling for loose shunting.)
Rick

#5 User is offline   roeter 

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Posted 10 March 2020 - 03:48 AM

For a complete list, the following situations should also be included :
  • unbraked wagons : wagons do not couple automatically, but obviously there are no angle cocks or brake hoses.
    This can apply to both manual and semi-automatic coupling.
  • passenger coaches : if all things need to be done manually, the following should also be added (as applicable):
    • Steam pipes
    • Power supply
    • Data cables


I've always found it strange that people think it's the pinnacle of realism to add manual operation of angle cocks and brake hoses but yet have never included steam pipes or power supply.

By the way, manual operation of angle cocks and brake hoses is only required in activity mode. In timetable mode, the driver is not engaged in the coupling or uncoupling actions.

Regards,
Rob Roeterdink

#6 User is online   darwins 

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Posted 10 March 2020 - 06:21 AM

Quote

I've always found it strange that people think it's the pinnacle of realism to add manual operation of angle cocks and brake hoses but yet have never included steam pipes or power supply.

Indeed that is one of the two little things that irritates me most. The other being the need to raise the pantograph on electric traction - particularly annoying on third rail!

Quote

By the way, manual operation of angle cocks and brake hoses is only required in activity mode. In timetable mode, the driver is not engaged in the coupling or uncoupling actions.

Glad to hear that. My skills are way out of date in terms of time table mode.


#7 User is offline   Weter 

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Posted 26 February 2023 - 12:58 PM

Hello, dear colleagues.
Alas, I've joined ET at June 1 2020, so have missed this discussion for almost 3 years.
I've read these 6 posts and would add some thoughts.
Here is the plan, which I would develop with time:
Coupling "Unique types"
True sense of "Rigid connection"
Absorbers/buffers
Steamer and carriage/EMU SA modifications, 3-link adapters
"Guitar type" coupling
"Quick fix" command upon assembling train
"On buffer" mode of SA
Uncoupling on humps and push sorting
Heating power cable connection


#8 User is offline   Aldarion 

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Posted 27 February 2023 - 12:07 PM

View Postdarwins, on 09 March 2020 - 01:17 PM, said:

Some very good points there.
Personally I would rather not have to couple hoses and open and close angle cocks. However that is already part of OR and I do not see it being removed soon, even though vacuum brakes do not have angle cocks! Also it seems you need to do this for modern trains that have fully automatic couplings.

I would very much like to see a way to disable automatic coupling. To make shunting chain coupled wagons much easier.


Personally I do not use the opening and closing of angle cocks and coulinh of hoses because of lack of any time of animation. I'd rather do it and see something change than use a box with options.

#9 User is offline   Weter 

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Posted 01 March 2023 - 09:15 AM

So, following my plan above, let's begin with simplest entry:
Connection/disconnection of electric heating system's power cables is already present.
Though, as an information only, currently (I mean, no graphics and animations yet)
Coupling "unique types" as it was with MSTS - were used to restrict variants of coupling together, as in real life, regarding different coupling designs, or rolling stock types.
Rigid connection - actually isn't absence of slack, but impossibility of vertical shifting vpberween couple faces (e,g, Sharfenberg's coupler) - allows to connect pipes.
Absorbers protect stock's frame from impacts and allow slack, what is important for freight trains traction. For explosive or inflammable carriers, they have special design.
Buffers help to soften closure movement for hook-screw couplers-equipped stock and eliminate free movement of couplers on passenger cars.
That would be great to have "quick fix all of the train's couplers" command, similar to currently implemented "instant brakes fix" Shift+/ for saving time.
For connection of diesel/electric locomotives sections, middle carriages of EMU/DMU, auto-couplers with shortened "play" and shorter "tail" were used.
For passenger carriages connection, where slack is unnecessary and harmful, semi-rigid absorbers were used with auto-couplers, buffers and sprung passing corridors. Uncoupling levers can be fixed in "uncouple" position: its possible to push cars, but locks won't lock couplers. This mode is canned "on buffer".

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Posted 03 March 2023 - 07:48 AM

As auto-coupler substituted hook&screw coupling:
- Buffers have been retained untill all fleet gets auto-couplers only.
- First auto-coulper's heads had "ear" for hanging on them the link of screw couplers.
- As pilot bar of steamers didn't provide space for absorber, auto-couplers with very short tail, attached to flange was used.
That is so-called "steamer's auto-coupling type"; while tenders could have ability to carry full-functional coupler with absorber.

Three-link chains was a kind of adapter for coupling Rolling stock with earless auto-couplers to stock, still equipped with hook&screw.
"Guitar" couplings were known with Checho-Slovakian built double-sectioned passenger electric locomotives. This was unique and permanent-type coupling, for uncouple only during major repairs, not interchangeable with any other types of couplings/locomotives. Same, I think, could be with SOME steam engine-tender couplings, though more practical and frequent was being able to couple either tender to either engine.
What for Škoda electrohaulers, later types were equipped with ordinary SA-type automatic couplers between sections (or, likely shortened, with minimal slack)

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