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ENG/WAG Values - The Definitive List ?

#1 User is offline   scottb613 

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Posted 18 November 2019 - 08:07 AM

Hi Folks,

Question - are the tables on Peter's "Coals To Newcastle" site - the definitive list of what ORTS actually uses in the ENG/WAG files ? The tables he compiled are fantastic as they indicate whether it's a new/existing parameter with examples of actual usage... The following is the full list of parameters I've compiled from the tables I could find on his site... I couldn't find any for "Electric Locomotives" - so if someone has those parameters - please post...

So if not defined in the following quote - they're not used by ORTS ?

In order to make accurate physics files - we certainly need the definitive list of which parameters ORTS actually uses...

My point of confusion - is that after putting together this list - I found an example for Diesel Physics in the ORTS manual and it had a plethora of values not indicated in the tables ?

In the quote below - each parameter is listed - followed by an "x" for existing or an "n" for new - followed by any specific keyword input - if required - by the parameter...

Any mistakes or omissions - please let me know...

Note - See below.


Regards,
Scott

#2 User is offline   darwins 

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Posted 18 November 2019 - 09:16 AM

Hi Scott
The list is indeed longer.
There are parameters for gears for diesel mechanical transmission.
There are parameters for dynamic brakes (and blending them with train brakes).
As to electric traction - relevant parameters that apply to diesel (electric) also apply to electric. I don't think there are any additional parameters available yet.


#3 User is offline   scottb613 

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Posted 18 November 2019 - 02:54 PM

View Postdarwins, on 18 November 2019 - 09:16 AM, said:

Hi Scott
The list is indeed longer.
There are parameters for gears for diesel mechanical transmission.
There are parameters for dynamic brakes (and blending them with train brakes).
As to electric traction - relevant parameters that apply to diesel (electric) also apply to electric. I don't think there are any additional parameters available yet.


Hi Darwin,

Thanks for responding...

Sooooo - LOL - how do we flesh out this definitive list ? I think it would prove - immensely - useful to the community and modelers for numerous reasons - as if we don't know what works and it's never been documented - ORTS physics is still a bit of an arcane art...
:)

Is there some other means of identifying active parameters - short of crawling through the code - available to us ? If we can do this - it probably should be added as an appendix to the ORTS manual...

OK - I added a bunch more (in an Open Office Spreadsheet):

Quote


Universal

  • Type x Steam Diesel Electric Freight Carriage Tender
  • WagonShape x
  • Wagon x
  • Size x
  • Mass x
  • WheelRadius x
  • NumWheels x
  • Sanding x
  • Sound x
  • CabView x
  • HeadOut x
  • Name x
  • Description x
  • Include n


Steam Basic

  • IsTenderRequired x
  • BoilerVolume x
  • MaxBoilerPressure x
  • MaxTenderWaterMass x
  • MaxTenderCoalMass x
  • SteamFiremanIsMechanicalStoker x
  • NumCylinders x
  • CylinderStroke x
  • CylinderDiameter x
  • ORTSSteamLocomotiveType n Simple Compound Geared
  • ORTSDriveWheelWeight n
  • ORTSSteamBoilerType n Saturated Superheated
  • ORTSEvaporationArea n
  • ORTSSuperheatArea n
  • MaxSteamHeatingPressure n
  • ORTSGrateArea n
  • ORTSFuelCalorific n
  • ORTSSteamFiremanMaxPossibleFiringRate n
  • LPNumCylinders n
  • LPCylinderStroke n
  • LPCylinderDiameter n
  • ORTSSteamGearRatio n
  • ORTSSteamMaxGearPistonRate n
  • ORTSSteamGearType n


Steam Advanced

  • ORTSBoilerEvaporationRate n
  • ORTSMaxIndicatedHorsepower n
  • ORTSMaxSuperheatTemperature n
  • ORTSSuperheatCutoffPressureFactor n
  • ORTSCylinderPortOpening n
  • ORTSCylinderExhaustOpen n
  • ORTSBoilerEfficiency n
  • ORTSBurnRate n
  • ORTSCylinderInitialPressureDrop n
  • ORTSCylinderBackPressure n


Diesel Basic

  • ORTSDriveWheelWeight x
  • AntiSlip x
  • MaxDieselLevel x
  • MaxTemperature x
  • MaxOilPressure x
  • DieselUsedPerHourAtMaxPower x
  • DieselUsedPerHourAtIdle x
  • DieselEngineIdleRPM x
  • DieselEngineMaxRPM x
  • DieselEngineMaxRPMChangeRate x
  • MaxPower x
  • MaxForce x
  • MaxVelocity x
  • MaxContinuousForce x
  • MaxCurrent x
  • DieselSmokeEffectInitialMagnitude x
  • DieselSmokeEffectMaxMagnitude x
  • DieselSmokeEffectInitialSmokeRate x
  • DieselSmokeEffectMaxSmokeRate x
  • ORTSWheelSlipCausesThrottleDown n
  • ORTSDieselEngineMaxPower n


Diesel Advanced

  • ORTSMaxTractiveForceCurves n
  • ORTSCurtius_Kniffler n
  • ORTSInertia n


Couplers Basic

  • CouplingHasRigidConnection x
  • Coupling x Automatic Bar Chain
  • Type x
  • Spring x
  • Break x
  • r0 x


Couplers Advanced

  • ORTSTensionStiffness n
  • ORTSTensionR0 n
  • ORTSTensionSlack n
  • ORTSCompressionStiffness n
  • ORTSCompressionR0 n
  • ORTSCompressionSlack n
  • ORTSBreak n


Brakes Air

  • BrakeEquipmentType x handbrake retainer_3_position retainer_4_position vacuum_brake triple_valve graduated_release_triple_valve ep_brake ecp_brake auxilary_reservoir emergency_brake_reservoir distributor
  • BrakeSystemType x Air_single_pipe Air_twin_pipe Vacuum_single_pipe Vacuum_twin_pipe ECP EP Air_piped Vacuum_piped
  • MaxBrakeForce x
  • MaxHandbrakeForce x
  • EmergencyResVolumeMultiplier x
  • TripleValveRatio x
  • MaxReleaseRate x
  • MaxApplicationRate x
  • MaxAuxilaryChargingRate x
  • EmergencyResChargingRate x
  • EmergencyResCapacity x
  • BrakeCylinderPressureForMaxBrakeBrakeForce x
  • AirBrakesMainMaxAirPressure x
  • AirBrakesCompressor RestartPressure x
  • AirBrakesMainResVolume x
  • TrainPipeLeakRate x
  • TrainBrakesControllerMaxSystemPressure x
  • TrainBrakesControllerMaxReleaseRate x
  • TrainBrakesControllerMaxQuickReleaseRate x
  • TrainBrakesControllerMaxApplicationRate x
  • TrainBrakesControllerEmergencyApplicationRate x
  • TrainBrakesControllerFullServicePressureDrop x
  • TrainBrakesControllerMinPressureReduction x
  • ControlName x
  • ORTSBrakeShoeFriction n
  • BrakePipeVolume n
  • ORTSBrakeShoeFriction n
  • ORTSMainResChargingRate n
  • ORTSBrakePipeChargingRate n
  • ORTSBrakePipeTimeFactor n
  • ORTSBrakeServiceTimeFactor n
  • ORTSBrakeEmergencyTimeFactor n


Brakes Vacuum

  • BrakeEquipmentType x handbrake vacuum_brake
  • BrakeSystemType x Vacuum_single_pipe Vacuum_twin_pipe Vacuum_piped
  • MaxBrakeForce x
  • MaxHandbrakeForce x
  • MaxReleaseRate x
  • MaxApplicationRate x
  • ORTSNumberBrakeCylinders x
  • VacuumBrakesMinBoilerPressureMaxVacuum x
  • TrainPipeLeakRate x
  • BrakesTrainBrakeType x vacuum_single_pipe_eq vacuum_single_pipe
  • VacuumBrakesSmallEjectorUsageRate x
  • VacuumBrakesLargeEjectorUsageRate x
  • VacuumBrakesHasVacuumPump x
  • TrainBrakesControllerMaxSystemPressure x
  • TrainBrakesControllerMaxReleaseRate x
  • TrainBrakesControllerMaxApplicationRate x
  • TrainBrakesControllerEmergencyApplicationRate x
  • TrainBrakesControllerFullServicePressureDrop x
  • ControlName x
  • ORTSBrakeShoeFriction n
  • BrakePipeVolume n
  • ORTSDirectAdmissionValve n
  • ORTSAuxilaryResCapacity n
  • ORTSBrakeCylinderSize n
  • ORTSBrakePipeChargingRate n
  • ORTSBrakePipeTimeFactor n
  • ORTSBrakeServiceTimeFactor n
  • ORTSBrakeEmergencyTimeFactor n
  • ORTSBrakePipeDischargeTimeMult n
  • ORTSVacuumBrakesMainResVolume n
  • ORTSVacuumBrakesMainResMaxVacuum n
  • ORTSVacuumBrakesExhausterRestartVacuum n
  • ORTSVacuumBrakesMainResChargingRate n


Resistance

  • CentreOfGravity x
  • ORTSBearingType n Roller Low Friction
  • ORTSDavis_A n
  • ORTSDavis_B n
  • ORTSDavis_C n
  • ORTSBearingType n
  • ORTSDriveWheelWeight n
  • ORTSTrackGauge n
  • ORTSRigidWheelbase n
  • ORTSUnbalancedSuperelevation n
  • ORTSTrackSuperElevation n
  • ORTSSingleTunnelArea n
  • ORTSDoubleTunnelArea n
  • ORTSSingleTunnelPerimeter n
  • ORTSDoubleTunnelPerimeter n
  • ORTSWagonFrontalArea n
  • ORTSDavisDragConstant n
  • ORTSTrailLocomotiveResistanceFactor n


Lights

  • Type x Glow Cone
  • FadeIn x
  • FadeOut x
  • Cycle x
  • Headlight x
  • Unit x
  • Penalty x
  • Control x
  • Service x
  • TimeOfDay x
  • Weather x
  • Coupling x
  • Duration x
  • LightColour x
  • Position x
  • Radius x
  • Azimuth x
  • Elevation x
  • Transition x
  • Angle x


Effects

  • StackFX x
  • CylindersFX x
  • WhistleFX x
  • SafetyValvesFX x
  • Exhaust x
  • Cylinders2FX n
  • CompressorFX n
  • GeneratorFX n
  • Injectors1FX n
  • Injectors2FX n
  • HeatingSteamBoilerFX n
  • WagonGeneratorFX n
  • WagonSmokeFX n
  • HeatingHoseFX n
  • WaterScoopFX n
  • TenderWaterOverflowFX n
  • BearingHotboxFX n


Freight Animations

  • FreightAnim x
  • IntakePoint x FuelWater FuelCoal FuelWood FuelSand FuelDiesel FreightGeneral FreightLivestock FreightFuel FreightGrain FreightCoal FreightGrvel FreightSand
  • ORTSFreightAnims n
  • FreightAnimContinuous n
  • WagonEmptyWeight n
  • EmptyMaxBrakeForce n
  • EmptyMaxHandbrakeForce n
  • EmptyORTSDavis_A n
  • EmptyORTSDavis_B n
  • EmptyORTSDavis_C n
  • EmptyCentreOfGravity_Y n
  • EmptyORTSWagonFrontalArea n
  • EmptyORTSDavisDragConstant n
  • FreightWeightWhenFull n
  • FullMaxBrakeForce n
  • FullMaxHandbrakeForce n
  • FullORTSDavis_A n
  • FullORTSDavis_B n
  • FullORTSDavis_C n
  • FullCentreOfGravity_Y n
  • FullORTSWagonFrontalArea n
  • FullORTSDavisDragConstant n
  • MSTSFreightAnimEnabled n
  • IsGondola n
  • UnloadingStartDelay n
  • FullAtStart n
  • Shape n
  • MaxHeight n
  • MinHeight n
  • ORTSWaterScoopFillElevation n
  • ORTSWaterScoopDepth n
  • ORTSWaterScoopWidth n


Passenger Views

  • Inside x
  • PassengerCabinFile x
  • PassengerCabinHeadPos x
  • RotationLimit (No Longer Used ?) x
  • StartDirection x
  • Sound x
  • ORTSAlternatePassengerViewPoints n
  • ORTSAlternatePassengerViewPoint n


Controllers

  • EngineControllers x
  • Throttle x
  • Brake_Engine x
  • Brake_Train x
  • VacuumBrakesHasVacuumPump x
  • NumNotches x Dummy TrainBrakesControllerReleaseStart TrainBrakesControllerGraduatedSelfLapLimitedHoldingStart TrainBrakesControllerSuppressionStart TrainBrakesControllerContinuousServiceStart TrainBrakesControllerEmergencyStart
  • Notch x
  • DirControl x
  • BellToggle x
  • AWS x
  • Sanding x
  • Horn x
  • Wipers x
  • EmergencyStopResetToggle x
  • EmergencyStopToggle x
  • Vigilance x
  • BailOffButton x
  • Regulator x
  • Cutoff x
  • FireDoor x
  • Blower x
  • HeatingTap x
  • Shovel x
  • DampersFront x
  • DampersBack x
  • Injector1Steam x
  • Injector2Steam x
  • Injector1Water x
  • Injector2Water x
  • CylinderCocks x
  • Whistle x
  • BellToggle x
  • SmallEjectorOrCompressor x
  • HeadLights x



Thanks...

Regards,
Scott

#4 User is offline   R H Steele 

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Posted 18 November 2019 - 04:59 PM

Scott, many of the parameters listed have an "N" (new) after them, but they have been in use for at least 3 years...? ORTSMaxTractiveForceCurves for instance.Also, if a user is employing the Common.inc folder with the ORTS Diesel Engine definition, then the Diesel Smoke Effects parameters are not used.
The only usable parameters from Diesel basic ( if one is using the ORTS Diesel Engine definition + ORTSMaxTractiveForceCurves ) are:
  • ORTSDriveWheelWeight x
  • ORTSWheelSlipCausesThrottleDown n
  • ORTSDieselEngineMaxPower n


#5 User is offline   Genma Saotome 

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Posted 18 November 2019 - 06:00 PM

Perhaps n should signify not MSTS.

#6 User is offline   steamer_ctn 

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Posted 18 November 2019 - 07:15 PM

View Postscottb613, on 18 November 2019 - 08:07 AM, said:

In order to make accurate physics files - we certainly need the definitive list of which parameters ORTS actually uses...

My point of confusion - is that after putting together this list - I found an example for Diesel Physics in the ORTS manual and it had a plethora of values not indicated in the tables ?

I agree, that we need definitive lists, and I have done the best that I can, but documentation is definitely not a one man task, and hence the occasional requests for additional members to form a team to help.

I also believe that it is important that people can access examples to use when configuring locomotives. I have also attempted to provide these as well on the CTN site, however with changes in OR functionality they slowly go out of date, and need revision from time to time. These example models also form a quality check to determine whether bugs have been introduced.

#7 User is offline   darwins 

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Posted 19 November 2019 - 01:50 AM

It looks like we already have a bit of a team here for this task.
If Scott and myself revisit the list a couple of times - then try to put it all together perhaps some of the coders and OR lead people could check through the list and add as an appendix as you suggest.
Should we aim for something like Rudolf Richter's eng and wag file manual for MSTS eng and wag files - or is that too detailed as things should be documented in the body of the manual anyway?
Also another appendix creeping up on us must be using bits of code to include train control and warning systems. I think the French have already produced some for TVM430 and KVB.
It would be good to see some British ones GWR-ATC, BR-AWS, BR-TPWS, BR-TASS, BR-ATP and for all around Europe and the world various forms of ERTMS.


#8 User is offline   scottb613 

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Posted 19 November 2019 - 03:49 AM

View PostR H Steele, on 18 November 2019 - 04:59 PM, said:

Scott, many of the parameters listed have an "N" (new) after them, but they have been in use for at least 3 years...? ORTSMaxTractiveForceCurves for instance.Also, if a user is employing the Common.inc folder with the ORTS Diesel Engine definition, then the Diesel Smoke Effects parameters are not used.
The only usable parameters from Diesel basic ( if one is using the ORTS Diesel Engine definition + ORTSMaxTractiveForceCurves ) are:
  • ORTSDriveWheelWeight x
  • ORTSWheelSlipCausesThrottleDown n
  • ORTSDieselEngineMaxPower n




View PostGenma Saotome, on 18 November 2019 - 06:00 PM, said:

Perhaps n should signify not MSTS.


Hi Gerry/Dave,

Sorry for being vague - I'll update the spreadsheet - [x = existing MSTS value] [n = new ORTS value]... I'll label them better...

I was hoping you would pipe in here Gerry - I know you've made a herculean effort on getting the diesel physics worked out - and that's an area where I know very little...

I know I'm missing a bunch of the diesel braking parameters...

Regards,
Scott

#9 User is offline   scottb613 

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Posted 19 November 2019 - 03:56 AM

View Poststeamer_ctn, on 18 November 2019 - 07:15 PM, said:

I agree, that we need definitive lists, and I have done the best that I can, but documentation is definitely not a one man task, and hence the occasional requests for additional members to form a team to help.

I also believe that it is important that people can access examples to use when configuring locomotives. I have also attempted to provide these as well on the CTN site, however with changes in OR functionality they slowly go out of date, and need revision from time to time. These example models also form a quality check to determine whether bugs have been introduced.


Hi Peter,

RE: http://www.coalstonewcastle.com.au/

You've certainly championed this cause more than anyone I know - your site is an absolute gem - there is so much useful information there (not to mention all the specific value calculators) - I don't know how I would create a physics file without it... I've only been hitting it heavy for the last year or so - after I realized how much it contained - but I still find something new every time I visit... Thanks for doing it - seriously...

Fully concur on "not a one man task"...

Regards,
Scott

#10 User is offline   scottb613 

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Posted 19 November 2019 - 04:30 AM

View Postdarwins, on 19 November 2019 - 01:50 AM, said:

It looks like we already have a bit of a team here for this task.
If Scott and myself revisit the list a couple of times - then try to put it all together perhaps some of the coders and OR lead people could check through the list and add as an appendix as you suggest.
Should we aim for something like Rudolf Richter's eng and wag file manual for MSTS eng and wag files - or is that too detailed as things should be documented in the body of the manual anyway?
Also another appendix creeping up on us must be using bits of code to include train control and warning systems. I think the French have already produced some for TVM430 and KVB.
It would be good to see some British ones GWR-ATC, BR-AWS, BR-TPWS, BR-TASS, BR-ATP and for all around Europe and the world various forms of ERTMS.



Hi Darwin,

Sounds good to me... I wish we had a way to collaborate a little easier on this but attached is my Open Office Spreadsheet... If people make additions or deletions - in a new color - then send it back to me - I can certainly try to keep a master sheet updated with the intent of adding it to either the ORTS Website or Manual - - - or both...

Is there a way to visibly post spreadsheet contents on this board (aside from an image) - in a thread ?

What set me off down this path was a simple need to make an ORTS compliant language (syntax highlighter) for Notepad++ - that way - when you open and ENG/WAG file in the app - you clearly see which lines of code are still relevant - whether they originate from MSTS or ORTS - that you are using valid keyword arguments - provide a "type ahead" capability - and to minimize "typo's" when editing same... LOL - I'm on a mission to purge all the legacy MSTS code that's not longer used from my files...

Obviously - this can satisfy a much greater need as well...

I'd suggest we keep at as simple as clean as possible to start with - just so we have the best chance of completing it - or would it be more work to go back later and provide working examples and such ?

ORTS ENG/WAG Parameters (Open Office Spreadsheet and Adobe PDF):

Attached File  ORTS_Params.zip (90.51K)
Number of downloads: 129


Regards,
Scott

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