[scottb613]

Hi Folks,

Question - are the tables on Peter's "Coals To Newcastle" site - the definitive list of what ORTS actually uses in the ENG/WAG files ? The tables he compiled are fantastic as they indicate whether it's a new/existing parameter with examples of actual usage... The following is the full list of parameters I've compiled from the tables I could find on his site... I couldn't find any for "Electric Locomotives" - so if someone has those parameters - please post...

So if not defined in the following quote - they're not used by ORTS ?

In order to make accurate physics files - we certainly need the definitive list of which parameters ORTS actually uses...

My point of confusion - is that after putting together this list - I found an example for Diesel Physics in the ORTS manual and it had a plethora of values not indicated in the tables ?

In the quote below - each parameter is listed - followed by an "x" for existing or an "n" for new - followed by any specific keyword input - if required - by the parameter...

Any mistakes or omissions - please let me know...

Note - See below.


Regards,
Scott

[darwins]

Hi Scott
The list is indeed longer.
There are parameters for gears for diesel mechanical transmission.
There are parameters for dynamic brakes (and blending them with train brakes).
As to electric traction - relevant parameters that apply to diesel (electric) also apply to electric. I don't think there are any additional parameters available yet.

[scottb613]

darwins, on 18 November 2019 - 09:16 AM, said:

Hi Scott
The list is indeed longer.
There are parameters for gears for diesel mechanical transmission.
There are parameters for dynamic brakes (and blending them with train brakes).
As to electric traction - relevant parameters that apply to diesel (electric) also apply to electric. I don't think there are any additional parameters available yet.

Hi Darwin,

Thanks for responding...

Sooooo - LOL - how do we flesh out this definitive list ? I think it would prove - immensely - useful to the community and modelers for numerous reasons - as if we don't know what works and it's never been documented - ORTS physics is still a bit of an arcane art...
:)

Is there some other means of identifying active parameters - short of crawling through the code - available to us ? If we can do this - it probably should be added as an appendix to the ORTS manual...

OK - I added a bunch more (in an Open Office Spreadsheet):

Quote

Universal

• Type x Steam Diesel Electric Freight Carriage Tender
  
• WagonShape x
  
• Wagon x
  
• Size x
  
• Mass x
  
• WheelRadius x
  
• NumWheels x
  
• Sanding x
  
• Sound x
  
• CabView x
  
• HeadOut x
  
• Name x
  
• Description x
  
• Include n

Steam Basic

• IsTenderRequired x
  
• BoilerVolume x
  
• MaxBoilerPressure x
  
• MaxTenderWaterMass x
  
• MaxTenderCoalMass x
  
• SteamFiremanIsMechanicalStoker x
  
• NumCylinders x
  
• CylinderStroke x
  
• CylinderDiameter x
  
• ORTSSteamLocomotiveType n Simple Compound Geared
  
• ORTSDriveWheelWeight n
  
• ORTSSteamBoilerType n Saturated Superheated
  
• ORTSEvaporationArea n
  
• ORTSSuperheatArea n
  
• MaxSteamHeatingPressure n
  
• ORTSGrateArea n
  
• ORTSFuelCalorific n
  
• ORTSSteamFiremanMaxPossibleFiringRate n
  
• LPNumCylinders n
  
• LPCylinderStroke n
  
• LPCylinderDiameter n
  
• ORTSSteamGearRatio n
  
• ORTSSteamMaxGearPistonRate n
  
• ORTSSteamGearType n

Steam Advanced

• ORTSBoilerEvaporationRate n
  
• ORTSMaxIndicatedHorsepower n
  
• ORTSMaxSuperheatTemperature n
  
• ORTSSuperheatCutoffPressureFactor n
  
• ORTSCylinderPortOpening n
  
• ORTSCylinderExhaustOpen n
  
• ORTSBoilerEfficiency n
  
• ORTSBurnRate n
  
• ORTSCylinderInitialPressureDrop n
  
• ORTSCylinderBackPressure n

Diesel Basic

• ORTSDriveWheelWeight x
  
• AntiSlip x
  
• MaxDieselLevel x
  
• MaxTemperature x
  
• MaxOilPressure x
  
• DieselUsedPerHourAtMaxPower x
  
• DieselUsedPerHourAtIdle x
  
• DieselEngineIdleRPM x
  
• DieselEngineMaxRPM x
  
• DieselEngineMaxRPMChangeRate x
  
• MaxPower x
  
• MaxForce x
  
• MaxVelocity x
  
• MaxContinuousForce x
  
• MaxCurrent x
  
• DieselSmokeEffectInitialMagnitude x
  
• DieselSmokeEffectMaxMagnitude x
  
• DieselSmokeEffectInitialSmokeRate x
  
• DieselSmokeEffectMaxSmokeRate x
  
• ORTSWheelSlipCausesThrottleDown n
  
• ORTSDieselEngineMaxPower n

Diesel Advanced

• ORTSMaxTractiveForceCurves n
  
• ORTSCurtius_Kniffler n
  
• ORTSInertia n

Couplers Basic

• CouplingHasRigidConnection x
  
• Coupling x Automatic Bar Chain
  
• Type x
  
• Spring x
  
• Break x
  
• r0 x

Couplers Advanced

• ORTSTensionStiffness n
  
• ORTSTensionR0 n
  
• ORTSTensionSlack n
  
• ORTSCompressionStiffness n
  
• ORTSCompressionR0 n
  
• ORTSCompressionSlack n
  
• ORTSBreak n

Brakes Air

• BrakeEquipmentType x handbrake retainer_3_position retainer_4_position vacuum_brake triple_valve graduated_release_triple_valve ep_brake ecp_brake auxilary_reservoir emergency_brake_reservoir distributor
  
• BrakeSystemType x Air_single_pipe Air_twin_pipe Vacuum_single_pipe Vacuum_twin_pipe ECP EP Air_piped Vacuum_piped
  
• MaxBrakeForce x
  
• MaxHandbrakeForce x
  
• EmergencyResVolumeMultiplier x
  
• TripleValveRatio x
  
• MaxReleaseRate x
  
• MaxApplicationRate x
  
• MaxAuxilaryChargingRate x
  
• EmergencyResChargingRate x
  
• EmergencyResCapacity x
  
• BrakeCylinderPressureForMaxBrakeBrakeForce x
  
• AirBrakesMainMaxAirPressure x
  
• AirBrakesCompressor RestartPressure x
  
• AirBrakesMainResVolume x
  
• TrainPipeLeakRate x
  
• TrainBrakesControllerMaxSystemPressure x
  
• TrainBrakesControllerMaxReleaseRate x
  
• TrainBrakesControllerMaxQuickReleaseRate x
  
• TrainBrakesControllerMaxApplicationRate x
  
• TrainBrakesControllerEmergencyApplicationRate x
  
• TrainBrakesControllerFullServicePressureDrop x
  
• TrainBrakesControllerMinPressureReduction x
  
• ControlName x
  
• ORTSBrakeShoeFriction n
  
• BrakePipeVolume n
  
• ORTSBrakeShoeFriction n
  
• ORTSMainResChargingRate n
  
• ORTSBrakePipeChargingRate n
  
• ORTSBrakePipeTimeFactor n
  
• ORTSBrakeServiceTimeFactor n
  
• ORTSBrakeEmergencyTimeFactor n

Brakes Vacuum

• BrakeEquipmentType x handbrake vacuum_brake
  
• BrakeSystemType x Vacuum_single_pipe Vacuum_twin_pipe Vacuum_piped
  
• MaxBrakeForce x
  
• MaxHandbrakeForce x
  
• MaxReleaseRate x
  
• MaxApplicationRate x
  
• ORTSNumberBrakeCylinders x
  
• VacuumBrakesMinBoilerPressureMaxVacuum x
  
• TrainPipeLeakRate x
  
• BrakesTrainBrakeType x vacuum_single_pipe_eq vacuum_single_pipe
  
• VacuumBrakesSmallEjectorUsageRate x
  
• VacuumBrakesLargeEjectorUsageRate x
  
• VacuumBrakesHasVacuumPump x
  
• TrainBrakesControllerMaxSystemPressure x
  
• TrainBrakesControllerMaxReleaseRate x
  
• TrainBrakesControllerMaxApplicationRate x
  
• TrainBrakesControllerEmergencyApplicationRate x
  
• TrainBrakesControllerFullServicePressureDrop x
  
• ControlName x
  
• ORTSBrakeShoeFriction n
  
• BrakePipeVolume n
  
• ORTSDirectAdmissionValve n
  
• ORTSAuxilaryResCapacity n
  
• ORTSBrakeCylinderSize n
  
• ORTSBrakePipeChargingRate n
  
• ORTSBrakePipeTimeFactor n
  
• ORTSBrakeServiceTimeFactor n
  
• ORTSBrakeEmergencyTimeFactor n
  
• ORTSBrakePipeDischargeTimeMult n
  
• ORTSVacuumBrakesMainResVolume n
  
• ORTSVacuumBrakesMainResMaxVacuum n
  
• ORTSVacuumBrakesExhausterRestartVacuum n
  
• ORTSVacuumBrakesMainResChargingRate n

Resistance

• CentreOfGravity x
  
• ORTSBearingType n Roller Low Friction
  
• ORTSDavis_A n
  
• ORTSDavis_B n
  
• ORTSDavis_C n
  
• ORTSBearingType n
  
• ORTSDriveWheelWeight n
  
• ORTSTrackGauge n
  
• ORTSRigidWheelbase n
  
• ORTSUnbalancedSuperelevation n
  
• ORTSTrackSuperElevation n
  
• ORTSSingleTunnelArea n
  
• ORTSDoubleTunnelArea n
  
• ORTSSingleTunnelPerimeter n
  
• ORTSDoubleTunnelPerimeter n
  
• ORTSWagonFrontalArea n
  
• ORTSDavisDragConstant n
  
• ORTSTrailLocomotiveResistanceFactor n

Lights

• Type x Glow Cone
  
• FadeIn x
  
• FadeOut x
  
• Cycle x
  
• Headlight x
  
• Unit x
  
• Penalty x
  
• Control x
  
• Service x
  
• TimeOfDay x
  
• Weather x
  
• Coupling x
  
• Duration x
  
• LightColour x
  
• Position x
  
• Radius x
  
• Azimuth x
  
• Elevation x
  
• Transition x
  
• Angle x

Effects

• StackFX x
  
• CylindersFX x
  
• WhistleFX x
  
• SafetyValvesFX x
  
• Exhaust x
  
• Cylinders2FX n
  
• CompressorFX n
  
• GeneratorFX n
  
• Injectors1FX n
  
• Injectors2FX n
  
• HeatingSteamBoilerFX n
  
• WagonGeneratorFX n
  
• WagonSmokeFX n
  
• HeatingHoseFX n
  
• WaterScoopFX n
  
• TenderWaterOverflowFX n
  
• BearingHotboxFX n

Freight Animations

• FreightAnim x
  
• IntakePoint x FuelWater FuelCoal FuelWood FuelSand FuelDiesel FreightGeneral FreightLivestock FreightFuel FreightGrain FreightCoal FreightGrvel FreightSand
  
• ORTSFreightAnims n
  
• FreightAnimContinuous n
  
• WagonEmptyWeight n
  
• EmptyMaxBrakeForce n
  
• EmptyMaxHandbrakeForce n
  
• EmptyORTSDavis_A n
  
• EmptyORTSDavis_B n
  
• EmptyORTSDavis_C n
  
• EmptyCentreOfGravity_Y n
  
• EmptyORTSWagonFrontalArea n
  
• EmptyORTSDavisDragConstant n
  
• FreightWeightWhenFull n
  
• FullMaxBrakeForce n
  
• FullMaxHandbrakeForce n
  
• FullORTSDavis_A n
  
• FullORTSDavis_B n
  
• FullORTSDavis_C n
  
• FullCentreOfGravity_Y n
  
• FullORTSWagonFrontalArea n
  
• FullORTSDavisDragConstant n
  
• MSTSFreightAnimEnabled n
  
• IsGondola n
  
• UnloadingStartDelay n
  
• FullAtStart n
  
• Shape n
  
• MaxHeight n
  
• MinHeight n
  
• ORTSWaterScoopFillElevation n
  
• ORTSWaterScoopDepth n
  
• ORTSWaterScoopWidth n

Passenger Views

• Inside x
  
• PassengerCabinFile x
  
• PassengerCabinHeadPos x
  
• RotationLimit (No Longer Used ?) x
  
• StartDirection x
  
• Sound x
  
• ORTSAlternatePassengerViewPoints n
  
• ORTSAlternatePassengerViewPoint n

Controllers

• EngineControllers x
  
• Throttle x
  
• Brake_Engine x
  
• Brake_Train x
  
• VacuumBrakesHasVacuumPump x
  
• NumNotches x Dummy TrainBrakesControllerReleaseStart TrainBrakesControllerGraduatedSelfLapLimitedHoldingStart TrainBrakesControllerSuppressionStart TrainBrakesControllerContinuousServiceStart TrainBrakesControllerEmergencyStart
  
• Notch x
  
• DirControl x
  
• BellToggle x
  
• AWS x
  
• Sanding x
  
• Horn x
  
• Wipers x
  
• EmergencyStopResetToggle x
  
• EmergencyStopToggle x
  
• Vigilance x
  
• BailOffButton x
  
• Regulator x
  
• Cutoff x
  
• FireDoor x
  
• Blower x
  
• HeatingTap x
  
• Shovel x
  
• DampersFront x
  
• DampersBack x
  
• Injector1Steam x
  
• Injector2Steam x
  
• Injector1Water x
  
• Injector2Water x
  
• CylinderCocks x
  
• Whistle x
  
• BellToggle x
  
• SmallEjectorOrCompressor x
  
• HeadLights x

Thanks...

Regards,
Scott

[R H Steele]

Scott, many of the parameters listed have an "N" (new) after them, but they have been in use for at least 3 years...? ORTSMaxTractiveForceCurves for instance.Also, if a user is employing the Common.inc folder with the ORTS Diesel Engine definition, then the Diesel Smoke Effects parameters are not used.
The only usable parameters from Diesel basic ( if one is using the ORTS Diesel Engine definition + ORTSMaxTractiveForceCurves ) are:

• ORTSDriveWheelWeight x
• ORTSWheelSlipCausesThrottleDown n
• ORTSDieselEngineMaxPower n

[Genma Saotome]

Perhaps n should signify not MSTS.

[steamer_ctn]

 scottb613, on 18 November 2019 - 08:07 AM, said:

In order to make accurate physics files - we certainly need the definitive list of which parameters ORTS actually uses...

My point of confusion - is that after putting together this list - I found an example for Diesel Physics in the ORTS manual and it had a plethora of values not indicated in the tables ?

I agree, that we need definitive lists, and I have done the best that I can, but documentation is definitely not a one man task, and hence the occasional requests for additional members to form a team to help.

I also believe that it is important that people can access examples to use when configuring locomotives. I have also attempted to provide these as well on the CTN site, however with changes in OR functionality they slowly go out of date, and need revision from time to time. These example models also form a quality check to determine whether bugs have been introduced.

[darwins]

It looks like we already have a bit of a team here for this task.
If Scott and myself revisit the list a couple of times - then try to put it all together perhaps some of the coders and OR lead people could check through the list and add as an appendix as you suggest.
Should we aim for something like Rudolf Richter's eng and wag file manual for MSTS eng and wag files - or is that too detailed as things should be documented in the body of the manual anyway?
Also another appendix creeping up on us must be using bits of code to include train control and warning systems. I think the French have already produced some for TVM430 and KVB.
It would be good to see some British ones GWR-ATC, BR-AWS, BR-TPWS, BR-TASS, BR-ATP and for all around Europe and the world various forms of ERTMS.

[scottb613]

 R H Steele, on 18 November 2019 - 04:59 PM, said:

Scott, many of the parameters listed have an "N" (new) after them, but they have been in use for at least 3 years...? ORTSMaxTractiveForceCurves for instance.Also, if a user is employing the Common.inc folder with the ORTS Diesel Engine definition, then the Diesel Smoke Effects parameters are not used.
The only usable parameters from Diesel basic ( if one is using the ORTS Diesel Engine definition + ORTSMaxTractiveForceCurves ) are:

• ORTSDriveWheelWeight x
• ORTSWheelSlipCausesThrottleDown n
• ORTSDieselEngineMaxPower n

 Genma Saotome, on 18 November 2019 - 06:00 PM, said:

Perhaps n should signify not MSTS.

Hi Gerry/Dave,

Sorry for being vague - I'll update the spreadsheet - [x = existing MSTS value] [n = new ORTS value]... I'll label them better...

I was hoping you would pipe in here Gerry - I know you've made a herculean effort on getting the diesel physics worked out - and that's an area where I know very little...

I know I'm missing a bunch of the diesel braking parameters...

Regards,
Scott

[scottb613]

 steamer_ctn, on 18 November 2019 - 07:15 PM, said:

I agree, that we need definitive lists, and I have done the best that I can, but documentation is definitely not a one man task, and hence the occasional requests for additional members to form a team to help.

I also believe that it is important that people can access examples to use when configuring locomotives. I have also attempted to provide these as well on the CTN site, however with changes in OR functionality they slowly go out of date, and need revision from time to time. These example models also form a quality check to determine whether bugs have been introduced.

Hi Peter,

RE: http://www.coalstonewcastle.com.au/

You've certainly championed this cause more than anyone I know - your site is an absolute gem - there is so much useful information there (not to mention all the specific value calculators) - I don't know how I would create a physics file without it... I've only been hitting it heavy for the last year or so - after I realized how much it contained - but I still find something new every time I visit... Thanks for doing it - seriously...

Fully concur on "not a one man task"...

Regards,
Scott

[scottb613]

 darwins, on 19 November 2019 - 01:50 AM, said:

It looks like we already have a bit of a team here for this task.
If Scott and myself revisit the list a couple of times - then try to put it all together perhaps some of the coders and OR lead people could check through the list and add as an appendix as you suggest.
Should we aim for something like Rudolf Richter's eng and wag file manual for MSTS eng and wag files - or is that too detailed as things should be documented in the body of the manual anyway?
Also another appendix creeping up on us must be using bits of code to include train control and warning systems. I think the French have already produced some for TVM430 and KVB.
It would be good to see some British ones GWR-ATC, BR-AWS, BR-TPWS, BR-TASS, BR-ATP and for all around Europe and the world various forms of ERTMS.

Hi Darwin,

Sounds good to me... I wish we had a way to collaborate a little easier on this but attached is my Open Office Spreadsheet... If people make additions or deletions - in a new color - then send it back to me - I can certainly try to keep a master sheet updated with the intent of adding it to either the ORTS Website or Manual - - - or both...

Is there a way to visibly post spreadsheet contents on this board (aside from an image) - in a thread ?

What set me off down this path was a simple need to make an ORTS compliant language (syntax highlighter) for Notepad++ - that way - when you open and ENG/WAG file in the app - you clearly see which lines of code are still relevant - whether they originate from MSTS or ORTS - that you are using valid keyword arguments - provide a "type ahead" capability - and to minimize "typo's" when editing same... LOL - I'm on a mission to purge all the legacy MSTS code that's not longer used from my files...

Obviously - this can satisfy a much greater need as well...

I'd suggest we keep at as simple as clean as possible to start with - just so we have the best chance of completing it - or would it be more work to go back later and provide working examples and such ?

ORTS ENG/WAG Parameters (Open Office Spreadsheet and Adobe PDF):
 ORTS_Params.zip (90.51K)
Number of downloads: 763


Regards,
Scott

[darwins]

Quote

Hi Peter,

You've certainly championed this cause more than anyone I know - your site is an absolute gem - there is so much useful information there (not to mention all the specific value calculators) - I don't know how I would create a physics file without it... I've only been hitting it heavy for the last year or so - after I realized how much it contained - but I still find something new every time I visit... Thanks for doing it - seriously...

Got to agree with that.

Also think that more of the stuff that Peter has put together should find its way into the official OR User's Manual - unless there is a thought to split that up more for different kinds of users and have a more detailed manual for physics, another for timetables and activities and another for route building.

[R H Steele]

 scottb613, on 19 November 2019 - 03:49 AM, said:

I was hoping you would pipe in here Gerry - I know you've made a herculean effort on getting the diesel physics worked out - and that's an area where I know very little...
Regards,
Scott

Thank you, but I'm obliged to add...Maybe i get some credit for the work of wrangling all the data into the proper formats, but without the patience, knowledge, experience, and assistance of people like Bob Boudoin, Derek Morton, Dave Nelson, Peter Newell, Joe Realmuto, and sooo many others, I would not have been able to do any of it. By the way, I consider it fun, and am enjoying every minute of it.
We are all working towards the same goal.
...and about Peter's web site....a gem, a treasure, and invaluable resource.

[Genma Saotome]

I've implemented all of the suggestions posted above as syntax in my editor (Emeditor pro) for .con and .inc files. Note, my eye's have been "failing" (I'll probably have corneal transplant surgery in December) and so as my own visual aid I've set the font to be pretty "loud".

A .con file:


I see that the reserved word "Flip" isn't in the list.


My empty_car,inc for Tim Muir's USRA SS boxcars:


As you can see I've chosen to apply specific colors to different strings - purple for MSTS parameters, blue for OR, brown for parameters not in OR which probably should be. What remains in black is a parameter name not in either list. That might be an omission for the posted list in this thread... or it could signify an old MSTS parameter that is no longer in use. THAT is useful.

I could have set the display to color code the whole line following the keyword, or defined the keyword to include the left parenthesis but I think it is better to leave the data values in black. I could assign a color to both parenthesis and I will give that a trial.

Thanks Scott for showing the way forward on this, I think it will be a big help to me.

[conductorchris]

For collaboration: maybe google docs? (sheets)

[scottb613]

Hi Dave,

Hah - EXACTLY...

Happy to help...

Sorry about your eyes and yes - that's certainly a high visibility color scheme you have there...

I've been going through various ENG/WAG files and it's interesting to note what stands out...

It might actually help for people in the know to do similar - to help us separate the wheat from the chaff on our current mission...

So - I'm not familiar with your editor - but if folks want to try a Free Open Source editor - Notepad++ is practically an industry standard for editing text files...

Download Here:
Notepad++


Updated Spreadsheet and Notepad++ Config Files:
 ORTS Params.zip (101.98K)
Number of downloads: 604


So in my attachment I included two files for "Notepad++" - the ORTS Syntax Language [SCO_ORTS_LANG.xml] - a work in progress - and a matching Style [SCO_ORTS.xml]…

After you load Notepad++ - simply copy [SCO_ORTS.xml] into your "AppData" directory (might be hidden by default) for Notepad++ themes… You should see bunch of other themes in XML format residing there....


Example AppData: C:\Users\[your user name here]\AppData\Roaming\Notepad++\themes


Next - you can place [SCO_ORTS_LANG.xml] anywhere - as we need to "Import" it - just put it somewhere easy to find...

• Start Notepad++
  
• Click on the menu item for [Language] [Define Your Language]
  
• Click on the [Import] button and then find the file [SCO_ORTS_LANG.xml] to import it
  
• That should complete import - now anytime you open an ENG/WAG/INC file - it should use that language file

One final step...

• Select [Settings] [Style Configurator]
  
• There's a dropdown called [Select Theme] - click on that
  
• Now if you placed [SCO_ORTS.xml] in the correct location - you should see [SCO_ORTS] as a style listed - just select that

Done...


Now when you open an ENG/WAG/INC - it should look like the following - green is MSTS - yellow is ORTS - magenta is valid keyword arguments... If the line of text is white - there's a chance it is no longer used - such as the white lines in my example...

NOTE - WARNING - DANGER - our lists are not complete and we have much more work to do - DANGER - WARNING - NOTE







Regards,
Scott