Elvas Tower: OR Roller Bearing Friction at Low Speed, 0-5 MPH Range - Elvas Tower

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OR Roller Bearing Friction at Low Speed, 0-5 MPH Range What is the equation OR uses to calculate this? Rate Topic: -----

#31 User is offline   steamer_ctn 

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Posted 31 January 2020 - 05:01 PM

Hi Scott,

View Postscottb613, on 31 January 2020 - 11:05 AM, said:

Sorry - one more question - did anything it that article I linked standout as new data that might prove beneficial to our cause ?

Firstly, there is also a third part to the series that can be found on pg 204 of the same publication.

The following information was of interest to me.

In part 1 of the series the following statement is made, in which static friction can be equated to starting resistance, and kinetic friction can be equated to rolling resistance (Davis):

Quote

The static friction of any given car or train is considerably greater than the kinetic friction and kinetic friction is greatest at the instant motion takes place, but decreases rapidly as the speed increases up to a point between five and ten miles per hour depending upon conditions, after which kinetic friction increases as the speed increases.

This confirms the earlier discussion in regard to slack couplers. It also makes it clear to me, that in cases where train slack is unable to be utilized (perhaps as such on a "steeper" grade) then the locomotive may not be able to start its train even when it is at the rated tonnage. Where slack is able to be utilized, then I agree that the statement you quoted earlier suggesting that starting resistance is not an issue would apply. So the point becomes when would it be usable, and when won't it be usable?

In part 3 the following statement is made:

Quote

The values of mechanical resistance that have been used up to the present point represent favorable weather conditions, but as the mechanical resistance of any given car or train at any given speed in creases a:; the temperature decreases and as it is in creased by wind and precipitation , it is necessary to introduce some method by which tonnage ratings can be modified to meet unfavorable weather conditions. This is one of the most important features in connection with tonnage ratings but is probably the least susceptible to an analysis of any practical value.

This alludes to the different tonnage ratings that would apply under different weather conditions.

In part 2 there is a brief discussion about momentum grades, and this to me suggests that tonnage rates on a line section could be increased where there is a momentum grade, as the train would be able to climb the grade with its momentum. However if it was stationary on the grade, or at the base of it, then the train may not be able to start, or climb the grade with the larger tonnage. Hence it would be necessary to reduce the tonnage rating in this instance to enable the train to start or climb the grade.

Overall the articles were interesting, and they have reinforced my thinking on what might be an appropriate test method (scenario) which I have been contemplating for the other performance work on diesel locomotives to validate or use as a reference for code change.

#32 User is offline   scottb613 

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Posted 01 February 2020 - 04:28 AM

View Poststeamer_ctn, on 31 January 2020 - 05:01 PM, said:

Hi Scott,

Firstly, there is also a third part to the series that can be found on pg 204 of the same publication.

The following information was of interest to me.

In part 1 of the series the following statement is made, in which static friction can be equated to starting resistance, and kinetic friction can be equated to rolling resistance (Davis):

This confirms the earlier discussion in regard to slack couplers. It also makes it clear to me, that in cases where train slack is unable to be utilized (perhaps as such on a "steeper" grade) then the locomotive may not be able to start its train even when it is at the rated tonnage. Where slack is able to be utilized, then I agree that the statement you quoted earlier suggesting that starting resistance is not an issue would apply. So the point becomes when would it be usable, and when won't it be usable?

In part 3 the following statement is made:

This alludes to the different tonnage ratings that would apply under different weather conditions.

In part 2 there is a brief discussion about momentum grades, and this to me suggests that tonnage rates on a line section could be increased where there is a momentum grade, as the train would be able to climb the grade with its momentum. However if it was stationary on the grade, or at the base of it, then the train may not be able to start, or climb the grade with the larger tonnage. Hence it would be necessary to reduce the tonnage rating in this instance to enable the train to start or climb the grade.

Overall the articles were interesting, and they have reinforced my thinking on what might be an appropriate test method (scenario) which I have been contemplating for the other performance work on diesel locomotives to validate or use as a reference for code change.


Hi Peter,

Glad to hear it - the momentum grades caught my attention as well - - - it started me wondering if railroads would have designed or changed their track designs - to insure trains weren't stopped by signals/traffic when approaching the grade... Most of the routes I run - the grades are short enough that I can just use my speed to get over them (that is until I started using Chris's new B&O - those grinds are truly a humbling experience) That's always been a concern when creating activities - if it gets caught at a signal - just how light does it have to be to get moving again...

I started building a new test track so I can remove everything but what I want from the equation - no turns - 6 tiles level - 6 tiles 0.3 Up - 6 tiles 0.5 Up - 6 tiles 1.0 Up - 6 tiles level... 6 tiles seems long enough for the train to truly establish a steady state on each grade and long enough to negate any effects of momentum... It seems long enough to check the boiler capacity as well to see if it can keep up... I don't know if my testing will be helpful to you - but I'm curious - as I want to know the starting and pulling capacity of a train on each grade...

Interesting stuff....

Thanks...

Regards,
Scott

#33 User is offline   scottb613 

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Posted 01 February 2020 - 08:52 AM

Hi Folks,

Just ran some tests today - preliminary stuff - I need to recheck everything on my Mountain so that's blank - increased the mass/friction of my test car to 70 tons - the block in green is at max speed achieved on level track - steady boiler within 10 lbs max boiler pressure - by the end of my six tile run... The last column is the max number of cars I could start on level track... Just food for thought...

The two on the bottom are from the quote I referenced... I dropped their 280 as I couldn't find information for it...


Attached Image: Capture.JPG


Regards,
Scott

#34 User is offline   steamer_ctn 

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Posted 01 February 2020 - 12:22 PM

Hi Scott,

View Postscottb613, on 01 February 2020 - 04:28 AM, said:

it started me wondering if railroads would have designed or changed their track designs - to insure trains weren't stopped by signals/traffic when approaching the grade...
I believe that railway companies set limits on grades where station, sidings and crossing loops were located, otherwise they were forced to reduce tonnage loads accordingly, which impacted upon their operating costs.

View Postscottb613, on 01 February 2020 - 04:28 AM, said:

I don't know if my testing will be helpful to you
Whilst this might be of general interest, unless it has a basis in the real world it won't tell us whether OR has any issues or not.

Happy testing.

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