[scottb613]

mbm_OR, on 05 November 2019 - 01:34 PM, said:

Hi All,

New update with some improvements.

Full text window:

• Only the version info has been hidden.
  
• Gradient still presents for this window.
  
• Same as the F5 HUD.

Abbreviated window:

• For testing purpose, the "TIME" text is clickable to toggle between constant or proportional font width, both with Font-Style set to bold.
  
• Gradient and Steam usage have been hidden in this window.
  
• Arrow symbol added for each control command, now the triangle any larger.
  
• The Boiler Pressure (BOLS) value changes its color according to the boiler heat in/out values. (still a work in progress)
  
• The Multiplayer mode data is visible only at the "Full text" window.

Attached is the new beta code aligned with the OR x1.3.1-99 Testing version.
F5TrainDrivingWindow-x131-99-New.zip

Regards,
Mauricio

Hi Mauricio,

Hah - very anxious to try this out - I'll download it when I get in tonight and provide feedback after that…

Muchos Gracias...

:dance3:


Regards,
Scott

[rickloader]

Hi Mauricio, a group of us have been looking at firing steam locs. It is early days for us yet, but the Boiler Pressure(BOLS) related to heat in/out , will be very useful. Thanks for including it.
Rick

[mbm_OR]

Hi All,

New code about the boiler pressure (BOLS) related to heat in/out, improved by steamer_ctn.
This functionality is only available in the Abbreviated window, at the moment.

Attached is the new beta code aligned with the OR x1.3.1-99 Testing version.

09/11/2019. New update here.

Regards,
Mauricio

[scottb613]

Hi Folks,

Man - this is looking good !!! Amazing work Mauricio - simply outstanding...

I did these screens at a far lower resolution than my previous - these are 1600x1200 so the scale of the HUD's is a bit more reasonable....

I think IMG_2 is the text we want (thanks for making the comparison so easy) - and I guarantee you - if we keep the Abbreviated HUD - I won't be using the Full Text HUD - ever... Shoot - forgot to grab a screen of the Full Text HUD...

I didn't have nearly enough time to play with this but the improvements you made are superb...

I don't think I fully understand the color changing text yet - we didn't have "Cyan" on the old "Steam Usage" line - but now I see "Cyan" on the "Steam Pressure [BOLS]" line ? Also - I don't recall seeing the Speed ever go "Red" during my tests even when grossly over speed... I think "Orange" should be a cautionary color - when exceeding the limit by a little - then "Red" when exceeding by a lot ? Similar to the old one...

Dave has me concerned that some of the abbreviations I picked for labels might not be liked - I think we should be open to possibly changing them if someone can identify better - I'd like to stay with (4) characters to keep spacing... How about PRES instead of BOLS - - - and - - - WATR instead of BOLW - is this more intuitive ???

Using IMG_2 as a reference:

• Under BTRN - after "EQ 0" just add a "psi" to indicate units. Once should be enough.
  
• Under BENG - change label "BENG" to "BLOC".
  
• Under BENG - move "BC 70 psi" to a new line below and turn the text "White"...
  
• Under BENG - after moving the "BC 70" - speell out "Quick Release" as there will be room...
  
• Under FUEL - change the "C" to "c" - - - and - - - "W" to "w"...

My whole take on HUD's - is to be consistent - throughout - if we do it one way on a line - it should be done the same throughout the interface... I think alignment and consistency are important factors in HUD design - so the changes I mentioned reflect that...

Going forward - we need to address the HUD changes for "Manual Firing [Ctrl F]", Compound, and Geared steam locomotives... Diesels looked good but I didn't test electrics...

I have to do more testing and will report back after that...


IMG_1



IMG_2



:sign_thanks:


Regards,
Scott

[scottb613]

Hi Folks,

A couple shots of the Diesel HUD - one of the Full Text HUD as well...

You might see why I don't like the Full Text HUD - or maybe not...

One thing that Mauricio may want to consider is adding the "Setup" mode for Dynamic Brakes - as that doesn't indicate on the HUD...

Again - I'd change "BENG" to "BLOC" - seems a tad more intuitive...

I'd remove the "Cyan" text from ENGN - leaving it white - as it's not something critical you'll always be looking at...

I'd turn the BDYN "value" column "Cyan" - to be consistent with the other brake values...

I think we're getting close...


IMG_1 - Diesel Abbreviated HUD



IMG_2 - Diesel Full Text HUD



Thanks...

Regards,
Scott

[Eldorado.Railroad]

I have been watching this thread with some interest.

I think the idea of end user customization is essential. Whether this is the HUD window size / font size / items displayed, etc.

I disagree strongly about tossing out the FPS. For those of us who do extensive testing, and Open Rails can only succeed if things are tested, often beyond the original foresight of the developer, certain things NEED to be on hand as soon as Runactivity.exe starts. One of them has been FPS. This is often an indicator of something being amiss. Having to rifle through messy full debug mode HUD views to find a simple FPS is asking a lot. If FPS is what is expected, using the heavy duty HUD with all the debug information is a step not needed/wanted. This saves a lot of very valuable time.

I think the high contrast window is very long overdue! I have no data as to how many hundreds, if not thousands of times over the years I have had to reposition the camera to get contrast from a rather white/bright sky to see the HUD. The new HUD is a very good idea, thank you! Should it also have transparency settings? For those of us with ageing eyesight, being able to perhaps BOLD the fonts also helps, not to mention font size.

Although I can grasp the economy of only using 4 character references, would an extra character or two not help? Yes this chews into HUD/Screen "real-estate", but the older HUD, for all its shortcomings, never had that problem. At some point, localization will come into play, and what maybe works in English might not be as clear in French, Russian, Mandarin, etc. SPED, for "SPEED" will confuse many, as SPED is the past tense for SPEED! Is it how fast one is going, or how fast one WAS going?

Thanks for taking the time to consider these points. I have been testing Open Rails since 2010.

Steve

[Woodfyr]

Scott,

I personally prefer Image 2. Abbreviated terms will only confuse the novice user who is not as well versed in operations as "us" ole timers.

FPS must be maintained.

[scottb613]

Hi Folks,

Participation - YES...

Eldorado.Railroad, on 08 November 2019 - 06:36 AM, said:

I think the high contrast window is very long overdue! I have no data as to how many hundreds, if not thousands of times over the years I have had to reposition the camera to get contrast from a rather white/bright sky to see the HUD. The new HUD is a very good idea, thank you! Should it also have transparency settings? For those of us with ageing eyesight, being able to perhaps BOLD the fonts also helps, not to mention font size.

OMG - yes - and how much I HATED having to position the camera so I could actually read the text - uggh...

Eldorado.Railroad, on 08 November 2019 - 06:36 AM, said:

I disagree strongly about tossing out the FPS. For those of us who do extensive testing, and Open Rails can only succeed if things are tested, often beyond the original foresight of the developer, certain things NEED to be on hand as soon as Runactivity.exe starts. One of them has been FPS. This is often an indicator of something being amiss. Having to rifle through messy full debug mode HUD views to find a simple FPS is asking a lot. If FPS is what is expected, using the heavy duty HUD with all the debug information is a step not needed/wanted. This saves a lot of very valuable time.

Yeah - while I have no more or less say than anyone else - I'd argue - that for me FPS is an unnecessary distraction - when I look at the "Train Driving Info" I only want information pertinent to - driving my train - a debug tool shouldn't fall under the purview of that - I can't do anything to change FPS during my routine driving experience - why stare at it - all the time ? "Oh shoot I just lost 4 frames" - now I'm actively looking for the degraded performance instead of focusing on the sim experience... I know when my FPS are degraded enough to be a problem - just by looking at my sim...

That said - I can see it being useful as a "debug" tool - if Mauricio is willing - he's proven adept at using click spots to modify the HUD - how about another click spot to show/hide FPS ? Obviously we want to keep his work and click spots to a minimum... I think we can remove the font changing click spot on the "Abbreviated HUD" - as the constant width font seems the better choice...

Thanks for your insights...

Regards,
Scott

[scottb613]

Hi Folks,

Or just one more thought - if we're keeping both HUD's - keep FPS on the "Full Text HUD" and keep the "Abbreviated HUD" - well - abbreviated - no additional work by Mauricio required and FPS is a mere mouse click away... Best of both worlds...

While I understand there is so much more we can do to improve the HUD - like scalable fonts and such (which would affect all our HUDs/Tools/Windows) - we really should do this in phases... We want the initial phase I solution (even if less than perfect) - functional and committed to the production code base as soon as practical - therefore - if Mauricio has some unforeseen circumstance that pulls him away - loss of interest - gets fed up at all my suggestions - anything really - we don't lose what we already have...

Regards,
Scott

[Eldorado.Railroad]

scottb613, on 08 November 2019 - 08:27 AM, said:

.....if we're keeping both HUD's - keep FPS on the "Full Text HUD" and keep the "Abbreviated HUD" - well - abbreviated - no additional work by Mauricio required and FPS is a mere mouse click away...

Except we are back to the FPS being displayed against a more often than not very light background, which is about as close to illegible if that is what you want!

Having that FPS is great for determining what is slowing things down and in what direction, in a pinch, as opposed to having to migrate to the full debug HUD. YMMV, but in my experience sudden frame drops are a sign that something is amiss, one way or the other. Short of being able to drop into the route editor, etc, from Runactivity.exe, the FPS actually relates a lot of information as to what is going wrong.

If hiding the FPS in the windowed HUD is possible with a mouse click, then do one of these:

i) Make the default that FPS is visible in that window.
or
ii) In the Options menu allow the user decide whether FPS is visible as default or not, while still allowing the user to click it off/on as needed.
or
iii) ????

Thank you y muchas gracias Mauricio por su esfuerzo y paciencia con esta tarea,
Steve