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Forces acting on the vehicle Original MSTS parameters Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   Lamplighter 

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 06:15 AM

Hi all!
The MSTS simulator used two parameters for the forces acting on the vehicle:
Lateral forces acting on the vehicle: DerailRailForce (kN)
Impact force for derailment when the vehicle approaches or strikes one another: DerailBufferForce (kN)

Can Open Rails use these parameters? Does he use them for some calculation?

So far I have used these parameters as follows:
DerailRailForce = ( Mass(t) x 9,80665)/4
DerailBufferForce = Mass(t) x 9,80665

#2 User is offline   R H Steele 

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 08:11 AM

OR does not use the Derail values, afaik.
OR resistance is determined by the Davis equation ( see manual section 8.1.1 Resistive Forces )
OR Adhesion parameters are determined by the Curtius Kniffler formula ( see manual section 8.1.3 Adhesion of Locomotives )
FCalc2 can be used to find the Davis values for most types of equipment, locomotives and wagons.

#3 User is offline   Genma Saotome 

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 11:11 AM

The reason OR does not use those parameters is the team made a decision very early in the project to not represent any derailments in-game due to the lack of respect such events gave to the employees of railroads.

IF such parameters were fulfilled by functions I expect the product would be a broken hose which is what occurs now when the data indicates a car would roll over from going too fast on a tight curve.

#4 User is offline   Lamplighter 

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 01:02 PM

Thank you. The most important information is that Open Rails does not use the Derail function.
I thought so. Missing in Dynamic Load parameters.

#5 User is offline   ATW 

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 03:50 PM

I agree. Using the broke hose function for derailment indication an coupler/knuckle breakage since the three are different are good indications but the three need there own notification name changes. But if scenes are made for ORTS someday they can check off the scenes optional with warning to see or not see. Not pushing ORTS for scenes like some new simulator competors do but more consequences/discipline events got yet to be implemented for poor handling an wrong train makeup for a given route.

Speaking of Forces there have been recent derailments all over the system here having to do with going around curves, switches and crossovers with too much tractive effort (Not exceeding Knuckle limits) pushing an pulling. I mean it’s not just caused by poor handling of our engineers but are conductors an brakemen not cutting in the air of the cut of cars/locomotives, leaving handbrakes applied or just air not charged enough to release brakes and worse case the curve was too tight for that amount of traction effort vs brake resistance vs coupler forces an lateral/vertical forces the car or locomotive can stand. That said I have learned my lesson of today’s modern locomotives an their starting efforts while being in trail units while being the Brakeman writing down Speed/Traction/Run Notches and efforts are high starting even at lowest notch runs at 0MPH an see why we have to cutout Traction motors to reduce having too much effort basically at starting forces.

It’s not just Forces an Speed alone that cause derailments but it’s the angle an radius of the track certain stocks an locomotives can go through or not. Example of rules I have to deal with is what is illegal or legal through a stretch of tracks an yards like where six axels can and can’t go through due to its long bogie, traction, length etc. But it simply means it has a limit for how much force an twisting it can do prone to derail. But simple way to put it is an auto rack is too long an goes through a tight crossover switch where it’s drawbars twist out of draft too much it breaks coupler instead of knuckles or pops the wheels off the track an you got something on the ground hose detached.

So my point is since we got Advanced Couplers in the works an newer parameters to advance realism we need parameters added to WAG/ENG that gives stocks its true limits to derail scene or no scene but notification of what’s wrong or happened.

#6 User is offline   ATSF3751 

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 04:03 PM

Since we are talking about derailments I know Open Rails does not support it and I totally understand and respect that decision but I also think it would be nice to have little derailments like a picked switch, along with broken couplers and air hoses along with hot boxes and broken rail every so often as well. Those are just thoughts I had is all.

Brandon

#7 User is offline   R H Steele 

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 06:07 PM

View PostATSF3751, on 15 September 2019 - 04:03 PM, said:

Since we are talking about derailments I know Open Rails does not support it and I totally understand and respect that decision but I also think it would be nice to have little derailments like a picked switch, along with broken couplers and air hoses along with hot boxes and broken rail every so often as well. Those are just thoughts I had is all.

Brandon

If this is important to you, you should consider adding the idea to the Trello board.
This thread explains how: http://www.elvastowe...__1#entry201634
OpenRails Roadmap on Trello: https://trello.com/b...n-rails-roadmap

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