[Lamplighter]

Hi all!
Which parameter now accepts OR? MaximalPower and ORTSDieselEngineMaxPower express the same.
Both use the same value - maximum power on the diesel engine shaft. But each parameter uses OR otherwise.
MaximalPower is part of the ORTSDieselEngines engine definition block (see Open Rails 8.2.1). The manual does not know the ORTSDieselEngineMaxPower parameter.
So how does the current OR core calculate strength and traction? According to MaximalPower and ORTSDieselEngines or according to ORTSDieselEngineMaxPower?
My diesel electric locomotives are showing errors now. Performance unexpectedly decreases. I use parameters MaximalPower and ORTSDieselEngines.

[steamer_ctn]

edwardk said:

1573688780[/url]' post='252673']
Peter,

I remembered reading a post concerning lack of performance under Trainsim and sure enough there is. Running the earlier unstable versions before your change, the hp to the wheels would be around 4,280hp. Running the latest version after your change, the hp has dropped to 3,444hp. This is a big drop. Your response to the post under Trainsim was that there should not be a drop without the required changes. More information will be needed regarding the above change and if necessary, reversed.

Edit: The train that I was running above is SLI's Salad Express train with some of the ORTS changes such as the Bearing Type and the Davis entries.

Edit: Of course this depends how much the hp should be dropping. The above train is using the ES44AC. This is from Bob, "comment ( 4380HPx89%eff )"

Can you provide some of the ENG files for me to look at?

I am currently away for the weekend, and will respond to other questions when I get back.

Thanks

[Genma Saotome]

ATW, on 13 November 2019 - 05:14 PM, said:

I notice recently that custom ORTS sub folder ENG files doesn't work very much anymore when it comes to testing.

I gave up on that folder long ago. What I've done is set up a mini-route for those few routes I have where I want/need to be using train.exe and everything else is now OR only. That lets me do a straightforward conversion on the OR side (like 95% plus of what I have) to using OR parameters, culling obsolete MSTS parameters, and simple use of the Include command and related files. Essentially looking as-if it had been this way since 2001.

FWIW, back when OR 1.0 was getting ready to release I was advocating to the OR team that 1.0 should be the the last release intended specifically for forward compatibility in train.exe. I did not convince the OR team then... but I am still of the opinion it needs to be done.

[edwardk]

I am beginning to wonder if a parameter for the efficiency rating should be added. In my above post, I commented on Bob's rating for the GEVO which is 89%. This of course reflects the actual hp to the rails. As it is now, one common number is used which I think is 80%. The GEVO is not operating at its full potential under OR along with the fact that older locomotives could be a tad overpowered.

Edit: In the Salad Express train mentioned above, the locomotive has a rating is 92% so this locomotive is very much underpowered.

Edit: I ran a test by changing the line in DieselEngine.cs from .8 to .92 This was done so that I can see how the GEVO locomotives would operate. The hp to the rail went up to about 3994hp and the train had no problems moving. This does not explain what changed many versions ago when the lack in hp was just noticed.

[steamer_ctn]

Can you please post the ENG file.

Thanks

[edwardk]

steamer_ctn, on 01 December 2019 - 11:26 AM, said:

Can you please post the ENG file.

Thanks

Check yor PM.

[edwardk]

I may have just solved a long term issue that involves locomotive performance. Remember when MSTS came out, hp to rail was at 100% until Bob came along and fixed this by using the efficiency rating for each locomotive class. OR calculates the hp to rail using a standard value of "80%". A GEVO locomotive would have a rating of 89% or more. I came up with a new ORTS value that will be used to provide the proper efficiency rating. This will be used in the engine file after MaxPower(). My tests so far are good. The Z train activity in BNSF Seligman 2 started my questioning of locomotive performance. I always felt that 4 locomotives running a light container/trailer train was lacking. Now, this train appears to be moving as it should while I have to keep an eye on my speed limit. I sent the files to Peter for further testing. Keep in mind that there still may be a bug that was created many versions ago.

[steamer_ctn]

edwardk, on 13 November 2019 - 03:46 PM, said:

I remembered reading a post concerning lack of performance under Trainsim and sure enough there is. Running the earlier unstable versions before your change, the hp to the wheels would be around 4,280hp. Running the latest version after your change, the hp has dropped to 3,444hp. This is a big drop. Your response to the post under Trainsim was that there should not be a drop without the required changes. More information will be needed regarding the above change and if necessary, reversed.

I have now looked at the code, and you are correct that there is an issue with interpreting the Rail Output Power for BASIC configuration locomotives (ie without traction curves specified).

I have made a minor modification in the unstable version (dated today or later - Dec 2).

Please test your locomotive against this latest version and confirm that it is back the way that it is configured.

Thanks for advising me of this issue.

edwardk, on 01 December 2019 - 10:57 AM, said:

I am beginning to wonder if a parameter for the efficiency rating should be added.

I don't believe that it is necessary for any additional parameters to be added, as this will increase the model complexity without a great deal of value. The same result can be achieved with the parameters that are currently available.

One thing that I will do is add an extra option in the Options menu to allow the user to hide "verbose" error messages, unless they wish to fault find the performance of their locomotive.

[Lamplighter]

Yes, that's exactly it.
Locomotive engines defined by the ORTSDieselEngines parameter and without traction curves will not start (power is missing).
Only a combination of ORTSDieselEngines and ORTSTractionCharacteristics (or a combination of ORTSDieselEngines and ORTSMaxTractiveForceCurves) works.

Therefore, I wanted to know how to use the ORTSDieselEngineMaxPower parameter correctly.
This parameter appears to exclude the use of the ORTSDieselEngines block.

[steamer_ctn]

Lamplighter, on 01 December 2019 - 10:43 PM, said:

Therefore, I wanted to know how to use the ORTSDieselEngineMaxPower parameter correctly.
This parameter appears to exclude the use of the ORTSDieselEngines block.

I believe that there are two main ways to define (create) a good working ENG file for a diesel locomotive.

They are as follows:

i) BASIC - this is a simple configuration that requires minimal data and setup, it uses mostly "legacy" MSTS parameters, with a few new parameters to cover some "missing elements - such as the Diesel Prime Mover output power (described by the new ORTSDieselEngineMaxPower parameter).

ii) ADVANCED - this is a more complex configuration which allows more specific customisation of the diesel performance, and requires use of the Diesel engine code block and various power and tractive force tables. It will use more newer parameters that were not available in MSTS. Some of the "BASIC" parameters will not be required in an "ADVANCED" configuration.

MSTS ENG files may or may not provide a reasonable performance in OR, as they may contain "errors", or alternatively, they were reversed engineered to give a certain performance in MSTS that may not be fully reproducible in OR (as the MSTS code is not available for scrutiny).

It is also possible to build a configuration somewhere between the two of these by using some but not all of the relevant parameters.

Thus OR provides a great amount of flexibility, but as a result this can increase the amount of complexity in configuring the locomotive.

Previously I have made an offer to work with a small team to set up some example locomotive configurations and instructions, but todate this has not eventuated yet.