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Options within Eng and Wag files Thoughts about moving towards more flexible eng wag and cvf files Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   darwins 

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Posted 25 July 2019 - 12:58 AM

We have inherited a rather rigid file structure system from MSTS. Without losing compatibility with the old stuff, is it possible to allow options within files for the new?
In recent years payware train simulators have allowed realistic modelling of the behaviour of locomotives by allowing users to select different modes of operation without having to exit the simulator environment and choose a different version of the locomotive.

There may for example be a brake type selector in the cab of a locomotive, where the driver would select ‘AIR’ or ‘VACUUM’ and ‘PASSENGER’ or ‘GOODS’. (Passenger in fact being for any train with contiuous brakes and goods giving a slower brake application intended only for trains with a high proportion of unbraked vehicles.)

The above is also an example of adding a control in the cab that did not exist in MSTS but certainly does exist in the real locomotive.

Perhaps the most extreme example of the need for choice would be the British Rail Class 73 and later Class 74. They might need up to 18 eng files and 4 cvf files for one loco. Could we achieve the same with a single file of each type and no need to exit the sim to choose between them?

Why is the Class 73 a unique challenge for OpenRails?

Because it has

Two different coupling types

either knuckle (automatic)

or chain.

Two modes of propulsion

either electric

or diesel electric.

Four different braking systems

straight air brake for locomotive only

vacuum brake

twin pipe air brake

electro-pneumatic brake

Both the vacuum and twin-pipe air brakes would presumably have passenger or goods modes.

So with our current MSTS file structure we would need up to 12 eng files to achieve this!

(1) Electric Power, Chain coupling, Vacuum braked (goods mode)

(2) Electric Power, Chain coupling, Vacuum braked (passenger mode)

(3) Diesel Power, Chain coupling, Vacuum braked (goods mode)

(4) Diesel Power, Chain coupling, Vacuum braked (passenger mode)

(5) Electric Power, Chain coupling, Air braked (goods mode)

(6) Electric Power, Chain coupling, Air braked (passenger mode)

(7) Diesel Power, Chain coupling, Air braked (goods mode)

(8) Diesel Power, Chain coupling, Air braked (passenger mode)

(9) Electric Power, Automatic coupling, EP braking – for work with MU stock

(10) Diesel Power, Automatic coupling, EP braking – for work with MU stock

(11) Electric Power Light Engine worked by straight air brake only – (not currently possible in OR)

(12) Diesel Power Light Engine worked by straight air brake only – (not currently possible in OR)

In real life all this is a single locomotive.

If we add to that the thought of adding simple controls as an alternative for the game player rather than the advanced controls used by the rail simulator enthusiast – we could add a further six eng files:

(13) Electric Power, Chain coupling, Vacuum braked – simple controls

(14) Diesel Power, Chain coupling, Vacuum braked – simple controls

(15) Electric Power, Chain coupling, Air braked – simple controls

(16) Diesel Power, Chain coupling, Air braked – simple controls

(17) Electric Power, Automatic coupling, EP braking – simple controls

(18) Diesel Power, Automatic coupling, EP braking – simple controls


It should be a long term goal that all this can be achieved using a single OR eng file rather than requiring the user to exit the simulator and select a different version of the same locomotive.

For eng files this could mean:

1. Allowing multiple braking systems in one eng or wag file.

(In the case of dual braked wagons the braking type would be the one selected by the locomotive user or the consist file.)

2. Allowing multiple coupling types in one eng or wag file.

(Coupling in use selected by the user or by the consist file if there is a choice. There might be rules for example that if both vehicles have compatible automatic couplings then the automatic coupling would be used, otherwise the chain coupling would be used.)

3. Supporting bi-mode traction by allowing driver (or consist file) selection between electric and diesel mode.

For the cvf file this would mean a willingness to be flexible in supporting additional controls and switches in the cab. Some examples in this case:

Diesel Engine – switch on / switch off – not possible in MSTS but now available in OR

Shoe Retractor – the analagous pantograph up / pantograph down switch could be used in OR.

Train Brake Type Selector – to choose Air Passenger, Air Goods, Vacuum Goods, Vacuum Passenger – obviously not supported at present as multiple brake types are not supported at present.

Separate Throttles for electric and diesel operation.

Exhauster Overspeed button – another variation on vacuum brakes but not unique to this loco.

This links into a range of topics such as:

Bimode trains

Dual voltage and Multiple voltage electric trains

(Many modern electrics can chage voltage whilst moving so OR is problematic as you have to exit and start again with a new eng file to change the performance. TGV change performance even between classic 25kV and LGV 25kV as they are allowed to draw higher current on the LGV.)

Dual brakes on carriages and wagons

It should be possible to enter details of both types of brakes or through pipes into one eng file and then OR will select the correct parameters that correspond to the brakes being used by the locomotive. Or send an error message if brakes are not compatible with the locomotive. Although when working trains without train brakes you should have the option to continue.

Independent loco brakes that are more independent

Straight air brakes and steam brakes both work in the same way. They put pressure into the locomotive brake cylinder without requiring there to be any air (or vacuum) in the train pipe or auxillary reservoir.

Simple and Advanced Controls

The choice between game or simulator often comes up here.

There is no reason why OR can not be both.

Many flight simulators and some train simulators offer users a choice of mode.

Even changing gauge is something that modern trains can do.

How about the Spanish TALGO changing bogies...

This could be done through eng files or alternatively through the options tab or as an option on starting the sim.

From here it must be on to the developers and coders.

Is it possible to allow alternatives within eng and wag files?

Could choices and changes where appropriate be offered to the user without exiting OR?

It is almost always a case of wanting the sim to do one thing or the other, not of attempting to do two different things at the same time. Having chosen electric or diesel, vacuum or air, 1k5V or 25kV, overhead or third rail or whatever then the sim does that if possible until instructed to change.

Could choice lines be written into current eng file structure or would it involve a new file structure or some other solution?

Relevant links to OR discussion:


Bimode trains
Bimode trains



Multiple brakesystems


Dual voltage trains

Dual voltage trains

Dual voltage trains


Simple controls

Simple controls


Different trackgauges



#2 User is offline   mrmosky 

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Posted 25 July 2019 - 07:28 AM

Some interesting points here.

I was only looking at a class 73 this morning, with a view to making a 3d cab for it. I was looking at how it might be possible to change from electric to diesel operation in the game, as you say.

I had a thought that what might work was to utilise the Cntrl E combination that is currently used for switching from front to rear cab. In the .eng file for a 3d cab there are lines like this:

ORTS3DCab(
ORTS3DCabFile ( Class47cab.s )
ORTS3DCabHeadPos ( -0.7 3.2 8.35 )
RotationLimit ( 10 90 90 )
StartDirection ( 13 0 0 )
)
ORTS3DCab(
ORTS3DCabFile ( Class47cab.s )
ORTS3DCabHeadPos ( 0.7 3.2 -8.35 )
RotationLimit ( 10 90 90 )
StartDirection ( 13 180 0 )
)


where the first set of lines is for the front cab, and the second is for the rear cab. I thought that I could change the referenced .s file, for the rear cab, and that might call another cabview. it didn't however. The same cabview is
presented even if the rear cab .s file is different from the first.

But if it had worked, then I thought we might be able to have more sets of cab instructions, which would be called by subsequent presses of the cntrl E combination. So then I could have an electric cab, or a diesel cab, both accessible by pressing
cntrl E a few times.

Sadly it didn't work.

That might be a promising way to go though, to achieve some of what you desire.

Geoff

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