Elvas Tower: Dead Man Pedal? - Elvas Tower

Jump to content

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Dead Man Pedal? Possible Idea... Rate Topic: -----

#11 User is offline   roeter 

  • Vice President
  • Group: Status: Elite Member
  • Posts: 2,420
  • Joined: 25-October 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Country:

Posted 22 May 2019 - 07:50 AM

View PostATW, on 22 May 2019 - 06:54 AM, said:

Never heard.... What is this thing? Co Engineers never said anything about this an all I gotta watch listen for them is the alerter an button when they need a quick leak. How are we even able to check an look at back panels in need of standing up?

Here in the Netherlands, "Dead Man" devices were common on all stock except steam engines, almost since the introduction of electric and diesel trains. They came in all sorts : pedals which had to be pressed continuously, pedals which had to be pressed intermittently (guess why these replaced the pedals which had to be pressed continuously :) ), buttons and handles. All cut power and apply (full) brakes if not engaged as required.
In real life these are ofcourse important devices to ensure the train comes to a stop if anything happens to the driver (electric and diesel trains were single man operated right from the start).
But in a simulation they serve no function, so I don't think it is worth the effort to implement.

Rob Roeterdink

#12 User is offline   Coolhand101 

  • Foreman Of Engines
  • Group: Status: Contributing Member
  • Posts: 998
  • Joined: 13-June 15
  • Gender:Male
  • Simulator:MSTS
  • Country:

Posted 22 May 2019 - 10:59 AM

View Postroeter, on 22 May 2019 - 07:50 AM, said:

But in a simulation they serve no function, so I don't think it is worth the effort to implement.


The vigilance does exactly that in the sim and in real life. To make sure the driver is not asleep or worse.

Over in the UK, it is 60 seconds, if the cab controls have not been moved/activated. Older stock never had this, just the dead man handle or pedal. On DMMUs there was a 7 second delay, so the driver can change hands when the train was on the move. On older EMUs, DEMUs, there was no delay, so the brakes would apply straight away and very quickly to!

As it has already been said, a continuous key-press would seem pointless, as there are so many interactions in OR that would probably spoil the sim by this method. However, a rail console with a deadman power handle/pedal could be interesting!

Thanks

#13 User is offline   Mike B 

  • Superintendant
  • Group: Status: Elite Member
  • Posts: 1,085
  • Joined: 18-January 13
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Pacific Time
  • Simulator:Mostly ORTS these days
  • Country:

Posted 23 May 2019 - 09:42 AM

Love the point about the flag stick or grip to hold the pedal down. In the sim, consistent with other toggles, you could either hold the alerter (usually "Z" iirc) down, or shift-Z would jam it on with a flag stick.

#14 User is online   atsf37l 

  • Executive Vice President
  • Group: Status: First Class
  • Posts: 4,634
  • Joined: 25-February 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:San Diego
  • Simulator:ORTS
  • Country:

Posted 23 May 2019 - 11:15 AM

Nice heavy toolbox works. :rotfl: :bigboss:

#15 User is online   Traindude 

  • Engineer
  • Group: Status: Contributing Member
  • Posts: 639
  • Joined: 17-November 13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Seattle, WA
  • Simulator:Open Rails
  • Country:

Posted 25 May 2019 - 07:38 PM

My initial thought was that the dead man's pedal functionality could only be enabled if a compatible USB foot controller (like the one pictured below) was defined as a controller in OR. (since holding down a keyboard key continuously is obviously impractical)
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51e%2BCGpORuL.jpg

But from what I'm seeing in this thread is that the deadman functionality, even with a USB pedal, is pointless. After all, you can pause the game when you need a bathroom break, which you can't do in real life!

That doesn't mean I can map the alerter/AWS reset function to the pedal if I wanted to, though...

#16 User is offline   Mike B 

  • Superintendant
  • Group: Status: Elite Member
  • Posts: 1,085
  • Joined: 18-January 13
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Pacific Time
  • Simulator:Mostly ORTS these days
  • Country:

Posted 25 May 2019 - 07:49 PM

Since the deadman pedal can be simulated with the Alerter (Z key), and the toolbox can be simulated by Shift-Z (not yet, but should be doable considering how the bell and sander, for instance, work, unless something else already uses Shift-Z), why not set up something with the pedal to, essentially, press Escape, stopping the sim and bringing up the ingame menu? Perhaps with another message before going to the Escape menu? That way, if you need to go to the john or refill a drink (remember Rule G!), you just let go of the pedal and the game pauses. Of course, you could also have the pedal trigger the Alerter-Fail message and end the game without ability to continue - but I think the Escape menu would be a better terminal point of the trigger. But essentially, the Alerter provides a mechanism for the game to react to something like a deadman pedal already.

#17 User is offline   ebnertra000 

  • Superintendant
  • Group: Status: Elite Member
  • Posts: 1,234
  • Joined: 27-February 17
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:East-Central Minnesota
  • Simulator:OR/TSRE
  • Country:

Posted 25 May 2019 - 09:13 PM

I believe Shift-Z is one of the odometer key assignments, but since deadman pedals are so easy to fool, and the alerter works pretty well, is it really worth doing. It would certainly drive me mad having to hold a pedal forever

#18 User is offline   darwins 

  • Superintendant
  • Group: Status: Elite Member
  • Posts: 1,222
  • Joined: 25-September 17
  • Gender:Male
  • Simulator:Open Rails
  • Country:

Posted 25 May 2019 - 11:13 PM

Dead Man's handle in Europe - was much harder to fool.

Look in this video

At 2m 19s you can see dead man's handle released - springs push the handle upwards.

Shortly afterwards you can see driver holding it down to control the train.

Top of handle is curved, so that if driver was incapacitated their hand/body would slide off the handle rather than hold it down.

#19 User is offline   Coonskin 

  • Open Rails Developer
  • Group: Status: Elite Member
  • Posts: 3,689
  • Joined: 15-January 04
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Eastern Oklahoma
  • Country:

Posted 26 May 2019 - 04:22 AM

Darwins:

I haven't been discussing today's technology. Today in the USA there is a sophisticated "Alerter" system that has no pedal, but instead the "Driver's" (traditionally called the "Engineer" over here in the USA) actions are monitored and the Alerter responds accordingly.

What I perceived us to be discussing is the USA's older technology of the "Dead Man's Pedal", which was a pedal that physically be held down by the Engineer's foot.

#20 User is offline   Stijn D.C. 

  • Engineer
  • Group: Status: Contributing Member
  • Posts: 515
  • Joined: 20-August 16
  • Gender:Male
  • Simulator:Open Rails
  • Country:

Posted 13 July 2019 - 06:51 AM

France.tcs have this feature.

This is a French TCS system (VACMA) you nee to stay push alerterkey.

So with openrails & TCS script this is possible.


i have 2 foodpedals of scrap trains and order in USA some chipplates with 1 keyboard key on. you can rewrite firmware zo that this key have keyboard command that you need ( for alerter i prefer spacebar )

so when i push pedals full ( 3 steps ) it reset alerter. For trains with france.tcs i must stay push pedals and release when alertersound runs.

If you let shoot the pedal above speed that is config in .ini file of TCS script, there is other sound and after few seconds emergencybrake.

The maker of France.tcs is Serana member of this forum too and ORTS developper.


Greetz,

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users