Elvas Tower: Hump Operations - Elvas Tower

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Hump Operations & Special effects for custom nodes? Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   ATW 

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Posted 19 April 2019 - 10:57 AM

It's great to see what ORTS an development team has been offering to make simming more realistic an am thankful as many else out there.


From making turntables possible we all like that operation. But as the title says I think it is almost that time to go beyond an make hump operations realistic by making retarders to slow a car down an have a couple of ideas.

Since there is no disciplines for collisions yet in ORTS I have made it realistic on my end by placing an invisible car on top of a section I would consider a retarder where a humped car plows into it where the invisible force slows the wagon down then gains a little more momentum by grade where brake force wasn't enough to stop it but slow it. Around the 2nd round (invisible retarder in final track) the car slowed down to coupling speeds where a standing cut of cars were the buffers to not let cars escape from the hump end as some humps don't completely become flat grade at an end enough to roll to a stop. Since some tracks are used constantly back an forward there is no repeated way to keep putting a invisible retarder.

Other way I have ran around putting realistic hump of cars was bleed the cars to have little emergency air (enough to get around 8 BC pressure max) to have that slowing friction but that is time consuming to do it per humped car but gives it a good slow motion to slow once track becomes flat. I have also had special hump cars have a little dose of max handbrake force since ORTS not yet has the ability to set handbrakes to a certain percentage applied.


Enough said I have these ideas which I think should be considered in various ways.


1. Can it be possible for route developers that want to make certain section of track nodes be specially different in track conditions like for example retarding force with a special ORTS parameter applied to or between the selected UID node and SectionIdx where it is placed in a subfolder inc alike file or special world file folder for safe ORTS keeping so edits won't be overridden or mess with the route editor an MSTS?

Example: ORTSTrackCondition () <------------- Jointed, Welded, Greasy, Wet, Dry, Wavy, Vibrated, HighFriction, Tilted etc. Basically a performance/visual changer once occupied on the section whether in or out cab.
ORTSTrackType () <------------------ HumpTop, HumpBottom, Retarder, Yard, Mainline, Siding, Elevated etc. Basically a sound changer once occupied or special working limits.
ORTSTrackFreightAnimShape ( ) <----- Special track shape added to track for simple appearance improvement such as Flag, Greaser, Derailer, Switches, Marker etc.


TrackObj (
UiD ( 2259 )
SectionIdx ( 39862 )
ORTSTrackCondition (HighFriction_level2)
ORTSTrackType (Retarder)
ORTSTrackFreightAnimShape (retarder.s )
Elevation ( 0 )
CollideFlags ( 39 )
FileName ( A1t10mStrt.s )
StaticFlags ( 00200180 )
Position ( -85.9186 649.23 -940.681 )
QDirection ( 0 0.851463 0 0.524415 )
VDbId ( 4294967294 )
)


2. Would it be possible for an alternate to instead of using F9 scrolling to select a car/locomotive with the Mouse and select the options of what to do with that car or loco like they do in RUN 8? Another option to this is set the motion cars selected assembled track with out having to fly around lining the switch yourself (Automatic Switch lining within hump limits). Whether in activity mode where the cut of cars picked up have a work order location or you want to assign the cars siding marker in explore mode in dispatcher window, the humped car once cut away to roll freely pass the scanner will have switches automatically lined.


3. Would it be possible in conjunction with request 2 to have the option to set the handbrake to a chosen percentage especially for when gravity switching cars with click of an arrow mouse or percentage slider?


Any others out there with thoughts?


https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/57798694_2112862938821319_3736654288055697408_o.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=b35add911d7960dafd2e96ffc617f48d&oe=5D44901B
https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/57395663_2112854618822151_1303378847550406656_o.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=6a814abef122ce12f5cea61a2d3631c1&oe=5D3ACA57

#2 User is offline   ebnertra000 

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Posted 19 April 2019 - 12:16 PM

Would it be possible for the speed reduction to be variable? I think some retarders can slow to anywhere from 2 to 12mph depending on how far a car needs to go down its track. Would it also be possible to deactivate them entirely, as in some operations, that msy (or may not) be necessary? Otherwise, it sounds like a cool idea

#3 User is offline   darwins 

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Posted 19 April 2019 - 12:27 PM

A logical development of this would be to allow fly shunting and other loose shunting.

In the days before huge hump yards this was often around local goods sheds with shunters pulling down the handbrake levers of moving wagons to stop them.

In UK most of the wagons would have been unbraked wagons anyway. So it would be good to support wagons that are hand brake only - no automatic brake and no through pipe.

Also whilst there is a way of bleeding the air brake system there is not yet a way of doing the equivalent to vacuum brakes.

#4 User is offline   vince 

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Posted 19 April 2019 - 09:47 PM

Hump operation could be accomplished if each wagon of a designated consist become an single car AI train upon uncoupling , which as most know, AI trains normally couple very well in activity.
I cant see a reason a single car consist running the AI runner, No Power tho'! other than the incline, which is I presume, already in the Sim code.
For rolling down the hump, give them pseudo brake systems, like a player train in Autopilot.

regards,vince


#5 User is offline   darwins 

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Posted 19 April 2019 - 10:01 PM

That is the other thought on loose or fly shunting...

Chain couplings - wagons that do not couple together automatically on contact.

#6 User is offline   copperpen 

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Posted 20 April 2019 - 01:10 AM

View Postdarwins, on 19 April 2019 - 10:01 PM, said:

That is the other thought on loose or fly shunting...

Chain couplings - wagons that do not couple together automatically on contact.



That would require the coupling code section to be rewritten. Right now any coupling will couple to any other coupling and will substitute a coupling where none exists.

#7 User is offline   dforrest 

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Posted 20 April 2019 - 04:38 AM

View Postcopperpen, on 20 April 2019 - 01:10 AM, said:

That would require the coupling code section to be rewritten. Right now any coupling will couple to any other coupling and will substitute a coupling where none exists.


My opinion is that, in itself, that would be a welcome change.

#8 User is offline   ATW 

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Posted 01 March 2020 - 02:20 PM

Well I like the ideas but don't think changing the code in coupling should be necessary unless what some have been asking lately for ORTS like MSTS allow none couplers to not mess with signaling or upon passing not couple to train.

I have developed 3 humps sofar an thrown 2 aside by developing it all over from a fresh start scratch. This fresh start one has made me make the hump release start have a steeper grade around 3-4% for cars to keep there momentum to roll without bleeding the brakes which is necessary for where cars get into the selected tracks on flat or partial ascending track to slow it to a stop.

But going back to this topic I see some good ideas regardless of grades being steep or not where AI shunting should come into play upon releasing a car. But my question is how will the AI know which track to go into without vanishing or the user rushing to switches multi tasking? Will there be some additional parameters added to con files or activities where a section of cars in a con have a assemble path file connected to them from the route on there own momentum?

It would be a good idea in the future of ORTS to allow special conditions added to con files for intentional use like for example I want my standing train at start to have handbrakes on just the cars an not the whole train. Or if I want to simulate hot bearing/brakes/box like for example the default Marias Pass route activity "Autotrain with setout" have the intentional car needing to be setout show its obvious effects.

Wagon (
WagonData ( CN704296_LD rackpak4 )
UiD ( 4 )
ORTS_Ai_Hump_Path1( Track_303.pat <---- Rolling Path when uncoupled on first move by Ai )
)
Wagon (
WagonData ( TTGX159459_LD rackpak3 )
UiD ( 5 )
ORTS_Effects( Handbrake_Applied, Hot Bearing, <------ etc you name it the effects are intentional even for engines with load defects at start )
)
Wagon (
WagonData ( TTGX255099_LD rackpak2 )
UiD ( 6 )
ORTS_MaxSpeed( 50MPH <---- Max authorized speed in train )
)
Wagon (
WagonData ( Autorack_v1_3 ATW._Autorack_V1 )
UiD ( 65 )
)
Wagon (
WagonData ( Autorack_v1_2_LD ATW._Autorack_V1 )
UiD ( 64 )
)
Wagon (
WagonData ( Autorack_v1_1 ATW._Autorack_V1 )
UiD ( 63 )
)
Wagon (
WagonData ( TTGX156192_LD rackpak3 )
UiD ( 7 )
ORTS_Hump_Path1( Track_303.pat <---- Rolling Path when uncoupled on first move )
ORTS_Hump_Path2( Track_313.pat <---- Rolling Path when uncoupled on 2nd re hump move )

)

#9 User is offline   Fablok 

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Posted 04 March 2020 - 03:15 AM

https://www.youtube....h?v=13Dr7qhOHCA

And track brakes will be included ? Its common machinery on polish hump yards.

#10 User is offline   Howky 

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Posted 05 March 2020 - 03:59 AM

From czech :) https://www.youtube....h?v=HQbL92xejHs next https://www.youtube....h?v=FG9I_sp-FRA next https://www.youtube....h?v=i4kE7vsvo44

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