[copperpen]

longiron, on 25 March 2019 - 10:40 AM, said:

I would love to get everyone's input on how to set up a simple articulated locomotive that's two engine files - player and AI. There have been many suggestions but looking to for best OR practices in advance of releasing my route.

For OR I set up with everything equally distributed between the two files, include a cab with both so you can switch to the normal driving position when loaded.

[scottb613]

Hi Chris,

I'd look at Derek's stuff - while I don't think his articulated's are setup for ORTS specifically - I did note that he normally includes three versions of files - Normal - AI - and Helper... I haven't been through them with my new found knowledge of ORTS yet...

Did you catch my post outlining how it's SOOO much better to use the "Passenger View [5]" and "Alternate Passenger View [Shift 5]" to drive steam locomotives that have a tender ? You set the positions to the position where your normal head out views would be located... The positions are actually defined inside the Tender WAG File though and the relative motion adds greatly to the immersion...

I then turn the normal "Head Out" positions back to look at the train - again gaining the relative motion perspective - while also having all four critical views (front/back Engineer - front/back Fireman) covered within an easy button press on my joystick...

It's best to disable any other "Passenger Views" in the train while using this technique...

Video Example:
https://youtu.be/toA9hzbMuEU

Here is how I have my tender setup:

	Inside ( 
		PassengerCabinFile ( 280tender.s ) 
		PassengerCabinHeadPos ( 1.85 3.6 6.5 ) 
		RotationLimit ( 30 90 0 ) 
		StartDirection ( 0 18 0 ) 
		Sound ( "Mik-h-pas.sms" ) 
	)
	ORTSAlternatePassengerViewPoints (
		ORTSAlternatePassengerViewPoint ( 
			PassengerCabinHeadPos ( -1.85 3.6 6.5 ) 
			RotationLimit ( 30 90 0 ) 
			StartDirection ( 0 -18 0 ) 
		)
	)

Regards,
Scott

[longiron]

scottb613, on 26 March 2019 - 02:48 AM, said:

Hi Chris,
Did you catch my post outlining how it's SOOO much better to use the "Passenger View [5]" and "Alternate Passenger View [Shift 5]" to drive steam locomotives that have a tender ? You set the positions to the position where your normal head out views would be located... The positions are actually defined inside the Tender WAG File though and the relative motion adds greatly to the immersion...
Regards,
Scott

Looks really cool I'll have to give it a try with the both my normal B&O steam locomotives as well as the articulated ones. Be curious to see how tender view will work not being directly attached to engine, but farther away.
chris

[scottb613]

longiron, on 26 March 2019 - 04:29 AM, said:

Looks really cool I'll have to give it a try with the both my normal B&O steam locomotives as well as the articulated ones. Be curious to see how tender view will work not being directly attached to engine, but farther away.
chris

Hi Chris,

Sounds good - let me know how you make out - I came up with this way back when I started work on my Mountain in MSTS - but in ORTS - with the Train Vibrations turned on and Alternate Passenger Views - it takes it to a whole new level...

Regards,
Scott

[dajones]

I think the AI and helper eng files are designed to get around issues in MSTS. The MSTS AI wheel animation is too fast, so the WheelRadius in the AI eng file is increased to slow it down. I'm not sure what the other issue is, but the NumWheels is set to 1 in the AI and helper eng files that I have looked at.

Doug

[scottb613]

steamer_ctn, on 25 March 2019 - 07:58 PM, said:

Thus it would be great if users like yourself (with little detailed starting knowledge, but an interest in learning) can help me to refine and update the site. I am sure that all the questions that you have asked are on the tips of other peoples tongues.
Thanks

Hi Peter,

I'm baaaack - LOL...

I fully agree with your vision of making the Steam Model simpler and more accessible to the masses... The old MSTS model seemed to require burning candles on the eve of the summer solstice and the blood sacrifice of multiple chickens - to get it right...
:p

OK - read through your steam model page a few times along with some other pages - actually - now I have more questions...

First off the "Steam HUD [Shift F5]" is still referenced on your site - I don't think it's actually in the [Shift F5] rotation any longer - I haven't seen it in ages - is it just me - am I blind ? I use the Monogame version of ORTS... Without the HUD it's pretty hard to hand fire...

Side note: I'd love to see these HUD's moved to my iPad or a second monitor at some point...

Included your steam model functional block for reference...

I haven't loaded up MSTS in many years - so my comments are based on pure recollection (I did hand fire enough to do a reasonable job at getting a train down the track)...

When hand firing in MSTS - things were pretty sensitive - it took focus and concentration - and it was a bit tricky to obtain an ideal fire mass - you had to play with the "dampers", "blowers", and "fuel feed" to get it right - you could smother a fire by putting too much fuel on too quickly - once you had your train moving "draft" came into play - - - does all this still apply in the ORTS model ? Since we no longer specify an "ideal fire mass" is that just calculated from the grate area ?

I don't see it illustrated in the functional block - but in MSTS - "injectors" had a huge thermal load - when you had the injectors running - you had better be at minimal steam demand or your boiler pressure would drop like a rock... Most of my testing is on the same piece of track - I start off with a couple hundred yards of level track and go immediately into a 1% uphill grade - AI Fireman (Hot Start)... I have the new steam effect for injectors turned on - so I can see when they are working - and one of them starts almost immediately when I hit the hill and continues to run through several miles of climbing - yet the boiler pressure stays pegged at max... Do the injectors create a thermal load in ORTS - thereby ultimately affecting steam generation - and is there any difference in injection temperature between injector_1 and injector_2 ( LOL - kind of brings me back to feed water heaters) ? Will the AI Fireman use both injectors ?

Getting back to Data Collection - is it really valid to test just every five miles per hour ? It's an extremely limited data set and the locomotive when it hits these marks is in a state of acceleration - we can't see what happens when everything stabilizes out - and how our setting changes - affect what we're after - steam generation...

Ideally - I'd like to see (graph) whether I have a steam surplus or steam deficit - based on environmental factors and how I am controlling the locomotive - over time - so I can see trends... I want to compare this surplus/deficit to the other parameters we are collecting... That doesn't seem possible currently...

To be more realistic - I'd like to see the color coded "Steam Usage" removed from the HUD - and have a color coded steam pressure gauge instead (red decreasing - yellow steady - green increasing)... While the crew wouldn't have had color coding - we're usually multitasking (concerned with both driving and the fire) while in the sim so that's a bit more realistic cheat than steam usage... The basic HUD should only provide information that was actually available to the crew...

How does the values of [ORTSBoilerEvaporationRate] actually work - is "10" decreasing the evaporation rate - "12.5" does nothing - and "15" is increasing the evaporation rate ?

Thanks for the interest...

Quote

Would you consider changing the steam data collection interval to every minute (or user defined) vs every 5MPH ? Seeing what's happening when I hit grades and over time might prove more beneficial when trying to diagnose issues - it's only 60 log entries in an hour so it shouldn't tax anyone's system or space requirement...

While I see the values for steam, fuel, water consumed - I don't see a figure that equates to "steam produced" collected - is it available ?

Also if we could add some route info to the data collection - like mileage and/or grade - so we can equate the steam performance to an actual location would be helpful...

Regards,
Scott

[scottb613]

dajones, on 26 March 2019 - 06:54 AM, said:

I think the AI and helper eng files are designed to get around issues in MSTS. The MSTS AI wheel animation is too fast, so the WheelRadius in the AI eng file is increased to slow it down. I'm not sure what the other issue is, but the NumWheels is set to 1 in the AI and helper eng files that I have looked at.

Doug

Hi Doug,

One reason to have a helper file - that may still be applicable - is I would change the driver size slightly - so if I have two of the same locomotives - the running gear will never be synchronized between the two locomotives...

Regards,
Scott

[Hobo]

I do the same as in post #21 . The only thing you usually have to play with are the weights of the separate engines so as not to get excessive wheelslip on one of them .You have to watch where you put your lights also to have them follow the path properly and the cylinder steam cock outlets . You operate from the rear cab and becareful of freight anims so that they show up from the cab view .
The most difficult one so far was the " Triplex " but it works after quite a bit of juggling .

[Jonatan]

Call me old-fashioned but it seems ORTS is getting too complicated with all this realistic physics mumbo-jumbo. Soon we'll all need to be actual engineers and professors to set things up in our eng files! :D

[copperpen]

Jonatan, on 27 March 2019 - 09:24 AM, said:

Call me old-fashioned but it seems ORTS is getting too complicated with all this realistic physics mumbo-jumbo. Soon we'll all need to be actual engineers and professors to set things up in our eng files! :D

OR will happily run using the data it finds in an MSTS eng file adding its own data from lookup tables. What you get then will just not be as accurate as an advanced OR eng file.