[Genma Saotome]

I have a collection of .eng files for a particular locomotive where the brakes are not working. The f5 displays shows the brake pipe is set to zero psi but the reservoirs are up to pressure.

My guess is I am missing a parameter (or have the wrong value).

There are no error messages in the OR log file. Trying to apply either the train or locomotive brake does nothing.

Any suggestions on how to track down what's wrong?

[Hobo]

If I have this kind of a problem, I usually find a similar locomotive and compare all brake entries in the ENG. file , including the notches . Also I check the CVF. file to make sure it coincides with the ENG. file .
You've probably already done these things but it sure doesn't take much to make a difference . If that doesn't work I take a file from the similar engine and use it on the problem loco to see if that works . If it does - - I replace the working file with the original - - line by line in an effort to find the culprit .
I know my method is a bit crude but I often miss some small detail the first time around .
Just a suggestion !
Rod

[Lamplighter]

"Four eyes see more than two."
Hmm ... What about that .eng show? This would help identify the problem.

[scottb613]

Hi Folks,

Steam ?

What's always helps me is using a parenthesis aware editor - Notepad++... I've disabled half my config files with an errant parenthesis before - and it took me forever to realize it... One of these days I'm going to build an ORTS language/style pack for Notepad++ so we get proper color coded values - when editing eng/wag files...

Then - organizing the file - into proper code blocks - with proper indents keeping the parenthesis lined up in their respective places...

If it's a steam locomotive - compare it to Peter's site - as he has fantastic tables broken down by function - where you can see what functions are needed for ORTS with syntax examples...

Regards,
Scott


UUUGH - NOT MY ATTACHED IMAGES !!!
<Admin comment> Orphans deleted.
Yeah, I thought this had been solved by now. Obviously not. Scott had a great insight: Go to your profile, click on settings then on manage attachments. Wandering attachments will show up here and you can delete all of them.

[Genma Saotome]

Lamplighter, on 22 March 2019 - 03:24 AM, said:

"Four eyes see more than two."
Hmm ... What about that .eng show? This would help identify the problem.

True. Ok.

To be clear, all of the ,eng files for this model are identical to the one shown below with the exception of wagon(), FreightAnim(), and Name(). The .inc files I show are referenced by all .eng's of this model w/o regard to the road the model is skinned.

Quote

SIMISA@@@@@@@@@@JINX0D0t______

Wagon ( H10-44_MILW_760_early_AWW WagonShape ( H10-44_MILW_760-767_asbuilt.s )
FreightAnim ( H10-44_MILW_760_asbuilt_AWW_FA.s 1 1 1 )
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Models\\Percy_&_Norton\\FM_H10-44\\FM_H10-44_Fixed_Specs.inc" )
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Models\\Percy_&_Norton\\FM_H10-44\\FM_H10-44_Weight.inc" )
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Models\\Percy_&_Norton\\FM_H10-44\\FM_H10-44_Couplers.inc" )
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Models\\Percy_&_Norton\\FM_H10-44\\FM_H10-44_Locomotive_Brake.inc" )
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Models\\Percy_&_Norton\\FM_H10-44\\FM_H10-44_Lights.inc" )
Sound ( "TMeng_1.sms" )
)

Engine ( H10-44_MILW_760_early_AWW

Effects (
DieselSpecialEffects
(
Exhaust1
(
-0.254 4.9 2.79
0 1 0
.1
)
Exhaust2
(
0.254 4.9 2.79
0 1 0
.1
)
)
)

Wagon ( H10-44_MILW_760_early_AWW )

Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Models\\Percy_&_Norton\\FM_H10-44\\FM_H10-44_Engine_Specs.inc" )
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Models\\Percy_&_Norton\\FM_H10-44\\FM_H10-44_Locomotive_Control.inc" )
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Models\\Percy_&_Norton\\FM_H10-44\\FM_H10-44_Monitors.inc" )
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Models\\Percy_&_Norton\\FM_H10-44\\FM_H10-44_Air_Compressor.inc" )
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Models\\Percy_&_Norton\\FM_H10-44\\FM_H10-44_Westinghouse_XYZ_Brakestand.inc" )

comment ( Thanks to Harold Clitheroe for permission to use his TM Cab as the basis for this cab )
comment ( The cab used in this series of FM switchers I have modified from Harold Clitheroe's TM Cab and the quality - or lack of - is no reflection on Harold's original work... )

CabView ( FMH12_1.cvf )

comment ( If All-Weather-Windows are fitted, then the headout view is best not used as it is compromised due to the FOV used by MSTS )
Headout ( 1.75 3.4 -5.37 )

DieselSmokeEffectInitialMagnitude( 0.8 )
DieselSmokeEffectMaxMagnitude( 1.6 )
DieselSmokeEffectInitialSmokeRate( 0.5 )
DieselSmokeEffectMaxSmokeRate( 2.9 )
EngineVariables ( 750 )

Sound ( "TMcab_1.sms" )
Name ( "MILW H10-44 760 early AWW" )
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Models\\Percy_&_Norton\\FM_H10-44\\FM_H10-44_Text.inc" )
)

Quote

Comment ( H10-44_Locomotive_Brake.inc )

BrakeEquipmentType( "Triple_valve, Auxilary_reservoir, Emergency_brake_reservoir" )
BrakeSystemType( "Air_single_pipe" )
MaxBrakeForce( 36.30kN )

TripleValveRatio( 2.5 )
MaxReleaseRate( 18.0 )
MaxApplicationRate( 0.45 )
MaxAuxilaryChargingRate( 0.842 )
EmergencyResCapacity( 2.604 )
EmergencyResChargingRate( 0.842 )
EmergencyBrakeResMaxPressure( 90 )
BrakeCylinderPressureForMaxBrakeBrakeForce( 70 )

Quote

Comment ( FFM_H10-44_Westinghouse_XYZ_Brakestand.inc )

EngineBrakesControllerDirectControlExponent( 1 )
EngineBrakesControllerEmergencyApplicationRate( 50 )
EngineBrakesControllerEmergencyBrakeTimePenalty( 0 )
EngineBrakesControllerFullServicePressureDrop( 26 )
EngineBrakesControllerHasProportionalBrake( 1 )
EngineBrakesControllerMaxApplicationRate( 20 )
EngineBrakesControllerMaxReleaseRate( 20 )
EngineBrakesControllerMaxSystemPressure( 90 )
EngineBrakesControllerMinPressureReduction( 6 )
EngineBrakesControllerMinSystemPressure( 0 )

TrainBrakesControllerEmergencyApplicationRate( 50 )
TrainBrakesControllerEmergencyBrakeTimePenalty( 0 )
TrainBrakesControllerFullServicePressureDrop( 26 )
TrainBrakesControllerMaxReleaseRate( 4 )
TrainBrakesControllerMaxSystemPressure( 90 )
TrainBrakesControllerMinPressureReduction( 6 )
TrainBrakesControllerMinSystemPressure( 0 )

BrakesEngineBrakeType( "Air_single_pipe" )
BrakesTrainBrakeType( "Air_single_pipe" )
BrakesEngineControllers( "Independent, Train" )

comment ( engine brake from Richter's Engine manual )
Brake_Engine ( 0 1 0.05 0
NumNotches ( 2
Notch ( 0 0 EngineBrakesControllerReleaseStart )
Notch (0.1 1 EngineBrakesControllerApplyStart )
)
)
Brake_Train ( 0 1 0.0125 0.4
NumNotches ( 5
Notch ( 0 0 TrainBrakesControllerReleaseStart )
Notch ( 0.3 1 TrainBrakesControllerGraduatedSelfLapLimitedStart )
Notch ( 0.85 0 TrainBrakesControllerSuppressionStart )
Notch ( 0.9 0 TrainBrakesControllerContinuousServiceStart )
Notch ( 0.95 0 TrainBrakesControllerEmergencyStart )
)
)

Quote

Comment ( H10-44_Air_Compressor.inc )

AirBrakesAirCompressorPowerRating( 1.7 )
AirBrakesAirCompressorWattage( 19000 )
AirBrakesAirUsedPerPoundsOfBrakePipePressure( 0.27 )
AirBrakesCompressorRestartPressure( 65 )
AirBrakesHasLowPressureTest( 1 )
AirBrakesIsCompressorElectricOrMechanical( 1 )
AirBrakesMainMaxAirPressure( 80 )
AirBrakesMainMinResAirPressure( 0 )
AirBrakesMainResVolume( 8 )

[Lamplighter]

It seems to be old eng for MSTS. Contains old, unused parameters. New for OR is missing.
I refer only to the bad ones parameters and values. I do not know the technical characteristics of this locomotive.

Wagon section:
TripleValveRatio( 2.5 )
MaxReleaseRate( 18.0 )                                        (1,24bar/s)  Very high value, but suppose it is possible.
MaxApplicationRate( 0.45 )                                    (0,03bar/s)  Min. one level lower value ??
MaxAuxilaryChargingRate( 0.842 )                              (0,058bar/s) Min. one level lower value ??
EmergencyResCapacity( 2.604 )                                 (73l)
EmergencyResChargingRate( 0.842 )                             (0,058bar/s) Min. one level lower value ??
EmergencyBrakeResMaxPressure( 90 )                            (6,2bar)
BrakeCylinderPressureForMaxBrakeBrakeForce( 70 )              (4,8bar)
completely missing:
EmergencyResVolumeMultiplier ()
BrakePipeVolume ()


Engine section:
AirBrakesAirCompressorWattage( 19000 )                        OK, cca. 19 kW
AirBrakesAirUsedPerPoundsOfBrakePipePressure( 0.27 )          OpenRails does not use this parameter
AirBrakesCompressorRestartPressure( 65 )                      Min. pressure for switch compressor. Cca. 85% AirBrakesMainMaxAirPressure. No, but less than TrainBrakesControllerMaxSystemPressure.
AirBrakesHasLowPressureTest( 1 )                              OpenRails does not use this parameter
AirBrakesIsCompressorElectricOrMechanical( 1 )                OK
AirBrakesMainMaxAirPressure( 80 )                             (5,4bar) - it's less than TrainBrakesControllerMaxSystemPressure! Working pressures for charges compressor on the locomotive is at 125–140 psi.
AirBrakesMainMinResAirPressure( 0 )                           There must be min. pressure for brakes function!
AirBrakesMainResVolume( 8 )                                   OK, but on the photos are much larger
completely missing:
ORTSMainResChargingRate ()
ORTSBrakePipeChargingRate ()
Optional:
TrainPipeLeakRate ()

EngineBrakesControllerDirectControlExponent( 1 )             OpenRails does not use this parameter
EngineBrakesControllerEmergencyApplicationRate( 50 )
EngineBrakesControllerEmergencyBrakeTimePenalty( 0 )         OpenRails does not use this parameter
EngineBrakesControllerFullServicePressureDrop( 26 )
EngineBrakesControllerHasProportionalBrake( 1 )
EngineBrakesControllerMaxApplicationRate( 20 )               OpenRails does not use this parameter
EngineBrakesControllerMaxReleaseRate( 20 )
EngineBrakesControllerMaxSystemPressure( 90 )                The compressor and the main reservoir do not have the parameters!
EngineBrakesControllerMinPressureReduction( 6 )
EngineBrakesControllerMinSystemPressure( 0 )                 Unnecessary parameter

TrainBrakesControllerEmergencyApplicationRate( 50 )
TrainBrakesControllerEmergencyBrakeTimePenalty( 0 )          OpenRails does not use this parameter
TrainBrakesControllerFullServicePressureDrop( 26 )
TrainBrakesControllerMaxReleaseRate( 4 )
TrainBrakesControllerMaxSystemPressure( 90 )                 The compressor and the main reservoir do not have the parameters!
TrainBrakesControllerMinPressureReduction( 6 )
TrainBrakesControllerMinSystemPressure( 0 )                  OpenRails does not use this parameter

[Hobo]

Hi Dave !

Did you get the brakes working . I have that same set of locomotives and even with the original ENG file , no modification , they work in OR Monogame . I don't use the " include " system .

[Genma Saotome]

Hobo, on 25 March 2019 - 04:04 PM, said:

Hi Dave !

Did you get the brakes working

Yes and no. The brake line is now pressurized and I can release the train brake. I cannot set the train brake tho, only the independent brake.

I did find what was "peculiar": I had unwittingly divided the EngineControllers() block across two .inc files -- throttle in one, brake stand in another. Having found this I decided to do an experiment and simple stuff the string "EngineControllers(" into the brakestand .inc file (which had been missing there), plus the closing parenthesis, and see what would happen. That's where I am now -- have air pressure and can release it.

Will continue to experiment.....

[Lindsayts]

A couple things to watch, you probably already know..................

A syntax aware editor is a must, I use vim an text editor in Linux. I have even done a syntax definition file for it.

Beware on multiple defines on the SAME parameter OR gives no warning of these but uses the values of the last definition and discards all previous values.

OR reads the main file then ALL the includes BEFORE scanning for syntax, I found it trivlal to get a parenthisis error that cross's multiple include files and this is difficult to pick up.

Lindsay