Elvas Tower: Moving beyond Windows XP - Elvas Tower

Jump to content

  • 5 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • Last »
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Moving beyond Windows XP Why we are moving on Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   cjakeman 

  • Vice President
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: ET Admin
  • Posts: 2,857
  • Joined: 03-May 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Peterborough, UK
  • Simulator:Open Rails
  • Country:

Posted 18 December 2018 - 01:39 PM

View PostJames Ross, on 18 November 2018 - 06:40 AM, said:

Open Rails 1.3 has been released!

This is the last version of Open Rails to support Windows XP; future versions will require Windows 7 or later.

I wonder how many of our Windows XP users noticed the message above, which was part of the v1.3 Release announcement? When Wayne Campbell launched our Open Rails project in Dec 2009, Win XP was 4 years old and Win 7 was 5 months old. Nine years later, it is time to leave Win XP behind so that we can adopt more modern technology.

Analysis of the downloads of v1.3 suggest that 1.5% of our active users are using Windows versions older than Windows 7. If you are in that 1.5%, we hope that you will understand that software has to keep moving on.

The benefits I see are:

- better graphics (e.g. better lighting, shadows and reflections)
- more detail (from higher frame rates and better use of memory)
- faster delivery of improvements (from a platform that is more attractive to volunteer developers)

We can expect higher frame rates because the replacements for DirectX9 use the graphics processors more efficiently.
By moving away from XNA to MonoGame, we can have larger and more detailed models.

For better graphics, we can look at the progressive improvements on the Trainz website. For example, we should be able to provide multiple headlights and properly dark corners (ambient occlusion). If you are interested in the technical details, see upgrading to DirectX10 here and then to DirectX11 here.

These improvements will take time, but now we can make a start.

#2 User is offline   Coolhand101 

  • Foreman Of Engines
  • Group: Status: Contributing Member
  • Posts: 998
  • Joined: 13-June 15
  • Gender:Male
  • Simulator:MSTS
  • Country:

Posted 18 December 2018 - 05:13 PM

View Postcjakeman, on 18 December 2018 - 01:39 PM, said:

I wonder how many of our Windows XP users noticed the message above, which was part of the v1.3 Release announcement?


I'm still using XP. I've been telling myself to upgrade to windows 7 back in 2011. How time fly's.

However, i mainly use OR for my computer time, so this will finally urge me to upgrade.

How much time will XP users have left for running future OR versions?

Thanks

#3 User is offline   cjakeman 

  • Vice President
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: ET Admin
  • Posts: 2,857
  • Joined: 03-May 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Peterborough, UK
  • Simulator:Open Rails
  • Country:

Posted 19 December 2018 - 12:03 AM

View PostCoolhand101, on 18 December 2018 - 05:13 PM, said:

How much time will XP users have left for running future OR versions?

We're moving beyond WIn XP in the next few weeks. While it's possible to maintain a version just for Win XP (as Carlo has been doing for MonoGame), it's extra work so we're not planning to release Open Rails 1.4 in a version for Win XP.

#4 User is offline   ErickC 

  • Foreman Of Engines
  • Group: Status: Contributing Member
  • Posts: 997
  • Joined: 18-July 17
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hastings, MN, US
  • Simulator:ORTS
  • Country:

Posted 19 December 2018 - 03:32 AM

I'm all for multiple headlights and PBR and all the other modern shaders, that's for sure. Working around those limitations has been a real pain.

#5 User is offline   NF1-800 

  • Fireman
  • Group: Status: Active Member
  • Posts: 101
  • Joined: 11-October 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Simulator:MSTS and ORTS
  • Country:

Posted 19 December 2018 - 03:59 AM

Hi
Well it happens that i am one of those users that still rely on XP nowadays.
In any case i am not bothered by the fact that i am limited into using the last official version of OR (1.3).
I am aware of the fact that in order to make progress, some things might be needed to be left aside to make room for better.
For me it's just a matter of time and priority whenever i will have the chance to buy/make myself a new PC configuration. The actual configuration is 10 years old, so i do not expect more from it.
At least from my point of view, there are other priorities in life rather than a PC.
First i have to accomplish what matters the most for me, then when the time comes, i will look for a new PC.
Till then, i am satisfied with version 1.3 of OR.
Therefore, i thank you very much for all the hard work you guys do in order keep our dreams alive (creators and players).
Cheers!

#6 User is offline   Eldorado.Railroad 

  • Foreman Of Engines
  • Group: Status: Contributing Member
  • Posts: 977
  • Joined: 31-May 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Country:

Posted 20 December 2018 - 09:07 PM

View Postcjakeman, on 18 December 2018 - 01:39 PM, said:

These improvements will take time, but now we can make a start.


This is all very interesting, but I will paraphrase what I have mentioned in the private forums. If you still intend to keep a 32 bit version of Open Rails alive using XNA, there is no reason at all to drop Win XP support. Many of your older users do not have the funds available to constantly upgrade their equipment to the lastest "gaming standard". I still see posts on Trainsim.com lamenting content not being available/produced for MSTS! There is still resistance to move to Open Rails because the hardware required is not equal to the task, which are often laptops and not the latest desktop hardware.

Until the Open Rails team has a fully functioning DirectX11+ version of Open Rails running in Monogame AND also 64 bit, I cannot see the promises in the post coming to fruition anytime soon. The current 32 bit version of Open Rails running under XNA allows for models that are 100K+ polygons. Many of Directx9 features are held back in Open Rails, not because of Win XP but because we are still catering to Directx7 constraints (look at the .fx files and see for yourself). Yes, Monogame does a better job, and the only reason that the Monogame version does not work under Win XP is because their libraries have dropped Win XP support which Carlo elected to use. As of this writing only Carlo is working on releasing versions of Open Rails in Monogame (Thanks to Peter Gulyas pioneering work). Compiling an Win XP compatible executable under VS is still a no brainer. Until such time that your promises can be kept, and the manpower exists to accomplish it, I doubt very much that we will see a Monogame 64 bit version of Open Rails anytime soon.

So why throw away your support for Win XP now, if the work is no where near what is needed to really move on? On this Win7 machine, the Win XP compatible version works the same as on a Win XP machine. When are you planning to drop support for XNA, not before you are fully vested in Monogame I hope!?

Thanks,
Steve

#7 User is offline   Csantucci 

  • Member, Board of Directors
  • Group: Status: Elite Member
  • Posts: 6,986
  • Joined: 31-December 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Country:

Posted 21 December 2018 - 12:44 AM

True 64 bit OR MG has been developed, see here http://www.elvastowe...ndpost&p=237878 . My version instead is only 32 bit, because perpetualKid has more knowledges than me. But at the moment OR MG will become official, for sure it will have a true 64 bit version.

#8 User is offline   James Ross 

  • Open Rails Developer
  • Group: Status: Elite Member
  • Posts: 5,488
  • Joined: 30-June 10
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Simulator:Open Rails
  • Country:

Posted 21 December 2018 - 01:18 AM

View PostEldorado.Railroad, on 20 December 2018 - 09:07 PM, said:

If you still intend to keep a 32 bit version of Open Rails alive using XNA, there is no reason at all to drop Win XP support.

There are no plans to keep anything alive with XNA, 32bit or otherwise. Version 1.3 will continue to work as-is, of course, but future versions will use MonoGame, which uses DirectX 11, so we'll be requiring Windows 7. MonoGame also allows for 64bit versions as Carlo mentioned.

View PostEldorado.Railroad, on 20 December 2018 - 09:07 PM, said:

Until the Open Rails team has a fully functioning DirectX11+ version of Open Rails running in Monogame AND also 64 bit

That already exists, and this is also quite a silly position to take.

We're taking a break for the holidays (I am at least!) but in the new year we'll be making Git the official version control first (on Launchpad and GitHub), and the very next thing is start checking through the changes already made for MonoGame. It will not be instant to review, but as we'll be using Git, you can follow along in public and the actual switch will happen in a single "merge" once we're all happy with it.

#9 User is offline   Eldorado.Railroad 

  • Foreman Of Engines
  • Group: Status: Contributing Member
  • Posts: 977
  • Joined: 31-May 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Country:

Posted 22 December 2018 - 10:52 PM

View PostCsantucci, on 21 December 2018 - 12:44 AM, said:

True 64 bit OR MG has been developed, see here http://www.elvastowe...ndpost&p=237878 . My version instead is only 32 bit, because perpetualKid has more knowledges than me. But at the moment OR MG will become official, for sure it will have a true 64 bit version.


Carlo, somehow I did not see that post, so thanks for the URL! Seems like a lot of work for the average to do to get a 64 bit version up and running, I hope that "soon" a zip file will exist with all of that ready to run.

Thanks,
Steve

#10 User is offline   Eldorado.Railroad 

  • Foreman Of Engines
  • Group: Status: Contributing Member
  • Posts: 977
  • Joined: 31-May 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Country:

Posted 22 December 2018 - 11:07 PM

View PostJames Ross, on 21 December 2018 - 01:18 AM, said:

That already exists, and this is also quite a silly position to take.


Well of course it is silly when you take it out of context, I noticed the rest of the paragraph was... umm..."discarded". At this point a readily publicly "usable/ready to run" version of Monogame 64 bit is not available. It is not a "position" but an observation.

Ok then, so from what I read, any new work will not run under 32 bit, regardless of whatever version of Windows you are using (Win7 32bit included)?

With Win7 being EOL in 2020, you will abandon support for it as well shortly thereafter?

Steve

  • 5 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • Last »
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users