[ATSF3751]

Lately I have been converting some steam locomotives and rolling stock to Open Rails and I was curious about something. I came up with this idea and brought it up to Peter and he wasn't sure if anyone had come up with it or not or if eventually it would be implemented in this way. I noticed in every file for the Open Rails Basic and Advanced specs there is a folder in each individual Locomotive file called Open Rails with another Eng file in it along with a Wag File for the tender of a steam locomotive. I saw what they are used for and have also modified them but my question is eventually will you be able to use those Eng and Wag files for multiple locomotives and store them in the Open Rails folder instead of the original Engine folder? Lets say you have multiple locomotives of the same class that are all exactly the same but you don't want to do different Eng and Wag files for every single locomotive and just want to use the same one you already created. That would save on space in the game along with time and would make it much simpler and to keep them all in the Open Rails Folder instead of every individual Eng folder.

Brandon

[R H Steele]

this thread may helphttp://www.elvastower.com/forums/index.php?/topic/31171-include-file-standards/
Using the method Dave explains in the thread, which Erick used in the recent release of his NAVS GP7.
If I understand you correctly, the main eng or wag file would reside in the Common.inc folder with path strings placed in the OpenRails folder.
Give Erick (ErickC) a pm and I'm sure he can point you in the right direction.
You can do this with diesels, I dunno about steam. Perhaps OR steam code does not provide for this option.

[Genma Saotome]

Choosing where best to put your .inc files can be a bit tricky to explain so near with mr....

If every .wag or .eng for any **class** of rolling stock is all in one folder you probably should put your .inc files there too. If not then use common.inc\models\modelers name\class name.

By class name I mean the thing being modeled without regard to ownership. For example, any EMD locomotive is a class. It could be owned by many railroads and so could be found in many trainset folders. In that case it makes very good sense to put any
.Inc files in a neutral location. I recommend common.inc\models\modeler name\class name for that.

OTOH, many designs of steam locomotive were unique and owned by only one road. In this case I usually fiddle with the names of texture files (both .ace and in .s) so I can put everything in just one folder. I'll put the .inc files there too. But if I don't bother with that step I'll treat it as-if all the many folders of that class were owned by different roads and put the .inc files for them into the common.inc\models tree. Either way works and if you take the easy way and skip that fiddling that I usually do then you'd be using common.inc\models all of the time.

[Genma Saotome]

P.S I do recommend using the modeler's name in the common.inc\models path because different people may offer their own version of the same class. When that happens you cannot count on their models being exactly identical. Perhaps their size varies, or when an exhaust port is defined, lights, whatever and if you use the same .inc files for models made by different people you might goof something up.

Reskins don't mess with the mesh so they are a non issue.

[ATSF3751]

Aw I see now. So its like having a common Cab/Sound Folders but now its everything else that goes along with it. Lights, physics, Loads and Unloaded and whatever else there is. Going to be a lot of work converting everything over but in the long run it will work much better I believe. The way I have it set up on my PC is I have the Trainset Folder set up by Railroad not by Locomotive type. The reason I asked about Steam is because I have many locomotives that are exactly the same class in my collection. I do not mean Wheel arrangement either but an exact duplicate of the same steam locomotive just a different number.

Brandon

[R H Steele]

ATSF3751, on 25 August 2018 - 08:16 AM, said:

Aw I see now. So its like having a common Cab/Sound Folders but now its everything else that goes along with it. Lights, physics, Loads and Unloaded and whatever else there is. Going to be a lot of work converting everything over but in the long run it will work much better I believe. The way I have it set up on my PC is I have the Trainset Folder set up by Railroad not by Locomotive type. The reason I asked about Steam is because I have many locomotives that are exactly the same class in my collection. I do not mean Wheel arrangement either but an exact duplicate of the same steam locomotive just a different number.

Brandon

Yep, you got it in one, Brandon. i use the common cab/sound folder analogy when explaining to people unfamiliar with the concept. It does take some initial work, but it does make everything so much easier with this modular system.

[ATSF3751]

Awesome that is great news. Now the work begins with converting everything over! Where do I start? Well obviously the forums for one and the Manual for Open Rails.

Brandon

[R H Steele]

Plan ahead, read Dave's thread about how to organize everything, you can create any system you want, pretty much up to you. I went at it without any sort of plan, and then had to do some more work re-organizing stuff. So take some time in the beginning to think about it.
First. I'd set up a Common.inc folder with at the very least two subfolders, Fleet ( for everything wag related, brakes, couplers, etc. ); Locomotives ( obviously everything engine related) and then the Model folder....best to study the threads about this one, will make more sense to you being a builder. Create other sub folders in the Common.inc folder as you need, linking everything with path strings through eng or wag include files in the OpenRails folders.

Have fun.

[copperpen]

If you are never going to use MSTS again, you can place the inc file calls directly into the eng file same as cab and sound calls.

[ATSF3751]

Already got rid of MSTS all together. I have a separate folder specifically for the Route and Consist Editors and also have my Trainset, Routes and other Miscellaneous files in there. Then have my Open Rails folder completely separate. Would be nice to be able to have everything together but as I have found out that when you go to update Open Rails it screws up everything so thats why I have things separate.

Brandon

[Genma Saotome]

I have not "worked the problem" of steam locomotives anywhere near as much as diesels and but a tiny fraction of freight cars so what follows is, at best, one man's opinion of how the Include statement might appear for steamers. No warranties so YMMV.

SIMISA@@@@@@@@@@JINX0D0t______

Wagon ( spmsts4464-1
	Type ( Engine )
	WagonShape ( spmsts4464-1.s )
	Freightanim ( WP-GS6-Crew1.s 1 1 )
	Adheasion ( 0.3 0.76 0.63 0 )

	Include ( "SP_GS-6_Fixed_Specs.inc" )
	Include ( "SP_GS-6_Locomotive_Weight.inc" )
	Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Fleet\\Std_Steam_Locomotive_Bar_&_Coupler.inc" )
	Include ( "SP_GS-6_LOCOMOTIVE_BRAKES.INC" )
	Sound ( "GS6eng.sms" )
	Include ( "SP_GS-6_Lights.inc" )
)

Engine ( spmsts4464-1
	COMMENT ( "The following block of data is retained in this file to allow cusomizing the FX of each locomotive. " )
	COMMENT ( "For each FX, you may edit the numerical value in the thrd line of numbers." )
	COMMENT ( "DO NOT edit any other numbers!" )
	Effects
	(
		SteamSpecialEffects
		(
			WhistleFX
			(
				0 4.84 -6.943
				0 1 0
				0.1
			)

			SafetyValvesFX
			(
				0.0 4.8 -5.763
				0 1 0
				0.2
			)

			StackFX
			(
				0 5.05 1.387
				0 1 0
				0.17
			)

			CylindersFX
			(
				-1.496 0.38 1.527
				-1 0 -0.5
				0.15
			)

			CylindersFX
			(
				1.496 0.38 1.527
				1 0 -0.5
				0.15
			)
		)
	)
	Wagon ( spmsts4464-1 )
	Include ( "SP_GS-6_Power.inc" )
	COMMENT ( " For variable power performance copy any line from the above .inc file and paste below this comment, then ")
	COMMENT ( "edit value as desired. Use at your own risk." )


	COMMENT (" You may edit the values on the next two lines to have a customized effect appear on this locomotive." )
	SmokeCombustion ( 8 )
	SteamSmokeUnitsPerPoundOfFuel ( 4.5 )
	SteamMaxSmokeUnitsReleaseRate ( 10 )

	Include ( "SP_GS-6_Air_Compressor_&_Resevoir.inc" )
	Include ( "SP_GS-6_Independent_Brake_Control.inc" )
	Include ( "SP_GS-6_Train_Brake_Control.inc" )
	Include ( "SP_GS-6_Misc_Engineer_Control.inc" )
	Include ( "SP_GS-6_Misc_Fireman_Control.inc" )
	
	CabView ( GS6.cvf )
	HeadOut (  1.74 3.58 -13.10 )
	Include ( "SP_GS-6_Engine_Controllers.inc")

	comment ( fire temp, fire mass, water mass, boiler pressure,
		tender water, tender coal, smoke quantity,
		fire condition, fuel quality )
	EngineVariables( 950 1227 11297 260 194555 42000 200 1 1 )
    	
	Sound ( "GS6cab.sms" )

    	Name ( "SP MSTS GS-6 4464" )
	Include ( "SP_GS-6_Text.inc" )
)

For the above locomotive, the WP had the same class; I've not done any comparison between the data for the SP and WP units and so as I write all of the .inc files are with the .eng files. If Derek spread out the .engs into individual folders then I probably did fiddle with the .ace names so everything could be moved into just one folder -- this one came out of /SP_4-8-4_GS6. I expect I will eventually do that comparison and if enough of the data matches I'll set up the necessary folder as \common.inc\models\Derek Miller\GS-6, move the .inc files there and rework the path in the .engs. I have a very good editor that does find and replace of files across many folders so that task is trivial for me.

WRT the logic for where any given parameter went I tired to group items for the same function into one .inc file. There is no Open Rails need to do that but as far as an aid to comprehension I think it's best -- when you open something like "SP_GS-6_Train_Brake_Control.inc" at least you know what is supposed to be there and what should not be there. I think that's valuable enough to do because otherwise you'd wind up recreating just another .eng file with everything in it, only calling the whole mess .inc instead of .eng.

Hope this is of some good use for you as it is not easy getting started on this kind of work. Both Gerry and I made plenty of bad decisions that had to be ripped out and redone. If you are going to "roll your own as you see fit" expect at least a bit of the same.

[ATSF3751]

Thanks for everyone's help in this process. So what I am gathering you break up the Engine files and put them into Inc files but also keep the Engine file. You then do common folders for everything and then copy and past like you would for Common folders into the Engine files after you have everything broken up for that specific locomotive. Seems easy enough.

Brandon

[ATSF3751]

Not sure if this is any help to anyone regarding physics but here is something I found from the US Navy about Railroad specs and operations! It also talks about Couplers, breaking and other aspects of railroading. http://navyflightman...er-Types-44.htm I have also attached a PDF file about breaking systems by the Federal Railroad Administration from 1981 about breaking systems. It should have some specs and data sheets in there for everyone to look over. I know its a little dated but thought I would share any ways.

Brandon

Attached File(s)

•  Brake_System_Design_Optimization_VolII.pdf (5.45MB)
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