Elvas Tower: Hybrid Locomitives - Elvas Tower

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#1 User is offline   Citarofahrer 

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 09:33 AM

Hello everybody

in Switzerland are some special lcocos calles TRAXX3 AC (LastMile Module) and the "Stadler Buttler". And there are the Siemens Vectron with LastMile module.

Khey can switch between Electric Power and Diesel-Electric Power.

Is there any idea how to bring it into the Game?

#2 User is offline   Jean-Paul 

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 01:51 PM

View PostCitarofahrer, on 24 June 2018 - 09:33 AM, said:

Hello everybody

in Switzerland are some special lcocos calles TRAXX3 AC (LastMile Module) and the "Stadler Buttler". And there are the Siemens Vectron with LastMile module.

Khey can switch between Electric Power and Diesel-Electric Power.

Is there any idea how to bring it into the Game?


Hi !
I'm working by this time on a bimodal engine. I experiment a solution requiring two "include" OR eng. files in which, in First (electric), first half of throttle (0 up to 50 %) gives from 0 to 100 % of electrical power, and 0 % of Diesel Power, second half giving 0 % of electrical power for all throttle values higher than 50 %. Second include corresponding to Diesel gives no power from 0 to 50 % throttle, and up to 100 % of Diesel power above 50 %... . But it's an EMU/DMU unit, with two different motive units (French "Bimode" AGC). I suggest this simple solution could be used on a single dual engine by dissociating second truck of the engine, making of it a "second" engine. First truck is "electric" and second "diesel".
Good luck !

#3 User is offline   Hamza97 

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 08:06 PM

Nice Idea.... :thumbup3:

#4 User is offline   Mike B 

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Posted 25 June 2018 - 08:42 PM

View PostJean-Paul, on 24 June 2018 - 01:51 PM, said:

Hi !
I'm working by this time on a bimodal engine. I experiment a solution requiring two "include" OR eng. files in which, in First (electric), first half of throttle (0 up to 50 %) gives from 0 to 100 % of electrical power, and 0 % of Diesel Power, second half giving 0 % of electrical power for all throttle values higher than 50 %. Second include corresponding to Diesel gives no power from 0 to 50 % throttle, and up to 100 % of Diesel power above 50 %... . But it's an EMU/DMU unit, with two different motive units (French "Bimode" AGC). I suggest this simple solution could be used on a single dual engine by dissociating second truck of the engine, making of it a "second" engine. First truck is "electric" and second "diesel".
Good luck !

There were and still are some two-mode locomotives in the northeastern US. The FL9 was famous - a standard-looking F-unit that, in 3rd-rail 600-750VDC territory, could shut down the diesel and run on electric power allowing them to haul commuter trains into Grand Central Terminal without stopping to change engines. LIRR has some (slightly) more modern ones that do the same thing allowing no-change rides from the far 'burbs into Penn Station. And NJ Transit bought some about 10 years ago that are different - they use diesel or overhead wire. There were even some dual-mode Genesis diesels (similar to the standard Amtrak locomotive) equipped for 3rd-rail operation in 750VDC territory.

The NALW mega-Genesis pack has the dual-mode locomotives in it. Done the old MSTS hard way: same model, different .eng files, so switching requires stopping and re-starting the activity after changing the consist. Not horribly unrealistic, because the prototype could stop at the station otherwise used for changing between diesel and electric locomotives, and do the changeover while stopped, so you could have a part 1 and part 2 activity that handled the change. Changeover "on the fly" would require some way to change .eng files while driving.

EDIT: I like Jean-Paul's idea of having an electric power truck and diesel power truck; but the controls might get interesting. You would somehow have to match what would potentially be significantly different power levels for smooth changeover, and the automation behind the scenes to do that, and the fact that all the physics would be cockeyed (try running 4.4KW - NJT's ALP-45DP rating on electric - through a single pair of axles!) ... might almost be easier to switch .eng files while running, with the throttle off in neutral. /EDIT

Note that these are NOT diesel-electric hybrid locomotives. "Hybrid" implies some kind of on-board electric storage capacity, usually a battery, that supplies power to supplement diesel power during acceleration (and is recharged during braking). AFAIK, there aren't any such beasts in the real world.

Since a diesel locomotive uses electric drive, in principle, it's not too difficult to let it operate as a straight electric with the engine off. The older 3rd-rail versions did that using essentially the same control system as the diesel, since the internal voltage used by the diesel for electric drive was 600VDC much like the 3rd rail. It's more complicated with overhead, because not only do you need a pantograph with suitable body reinforcement, you need a transformer (most of the NEC operates at 25KVAC, often 25 Hz), rectifier, and other power gear to convert the line voltage to what the diesel otherwise uses. It does work, and the NJT locomotives have a considerably higher power rating on electric than they do with the diesel running.

Dual-mode, or "electro-diesel" as Wikipedia calls it, is uncommon because it costs a lot. Much custom work. It might actually be cheaper in cases like NJT to buy both a diesel and an electric, but it's better operationally for some runs to avoid having the riders change trains or the train change engines. Special purpose item, IOW. NJT did the same practical thing for a train it used to run between New York and Atlantic City; they put a diesel on one end and an electric on the other and ran the train push-pull; diesel would be shut down while on the electric lines, while the electric would be on the non-electric lines, but they were trainlined so whichever cab was in front was used.

#5 User is offline   Jean-Paul 

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Posted 26 June 2018 - 08:58 AM

Hi Mike !
I agree with you : I tested a bimodal EMU, in which AC can be delivered directly by aerial line, or provided by a Diesel-powered alternator (but, of course, not both at the same time). In fact, there is - almost - no problem, Diesel mode being, in reality, similar to AC mode (with just a little loss of power due to the yield of alternator). But, for simulation, I made a "facility", by treating first element of EMU(DMU) engine like a pure electric one, and second as a pure Diesel one, with the artefact I described in my post. That allows to enhance the (real) difference of comportment between direct AC and Diesel/alternator driving, that simplifies greatly the conception of eng. includes, and makes easy the elaboration of sound files. Suggestion of using one truck "electric" and one "Diesel" was a spontaneous response to a single body engine. But I must admit that, in reality, to transmit max tractive effort by only one truck is, at least, hypothetic :derisive: but, in simulation, hem... that's not impossible (overall with a railcar). ALP-45DP is an interesting engine. Despite they were made by Siemens, they are not used in Europe, where you can find some "bimodal" EMU/DMU, resulting from the association of an "half-EMU" with an "half-DMU" of the same conception, or "last-mile" engines, in which a small Diesel engine allows low-speed evolutions on unelectrified short branches. And hybrid engines are, generally, still experimental : probably, moderate authorized axle loads in Europe (rarely more than 23 metric tons) restricts uses of dual mode to light engines (MU), in which Diesel engines are in fact "roadtrucks" groups, because they remain light. All are expensive engines, but "fashionable" for environmental reasons.
So, in fact, the only problem to solve is that OR (and MSTS) asks clearly for an engine to be declared as "Diesel" or "Electric", but not both !! :lol: And it's frustrating (I'm also a fan of American rail, and I know this problem...with FL9 or ALP-45) to be compelled to divide an activity only for changing from "Electric" to "Diesel" mode !
Thank you very much for your interest !
Cheers,
Jean-Paul

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