Elvas Tower: US Steam Locomotive Performance - Elvas Tower

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US Steam Locomotive Performance

#1 User is offline   steamer_ctn 

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 08:57 PM

As part of the changes to the steam locomotive code, I have been working with a group of UK modellers to tweak the OR code to achieve the most realistic performance of steam locomotives in OR as possible.

To ensure the accuracy of performance, British Railways test reports have been used to confirm the authenticity of operation of the locomotives. Testing has shown that there is a high degree of performance alignment between the OR operation and the BR test reports.

It is expected that some models which have been tuned against these test report will be made available to the community shortly. The purpose of these models is to demonstrate the abilities of OR to model steam locomotive performance within reasonable tolerances, and to also demonstrate how configure the ENG file to achieve the desired outcome.

To ensure that a holistic model OR steam operational model has been created in the code, I now want to extend an offer to US modellers to do the same thing with a number of US locomotives. These models would also act as potential templates to demonstrate best practice in configuring steam locomotives. I have identified a number of freely available US test reports produced by PRR, and have also identified a source for the T1 and Q2 test report. As the latter test reports are only obtainable for a retrieval fee (currently quoted as approximately $50US) I am seeking community funding to purchase the reports.

Any models used would need to be able to be published on the Coals to Newcastle site so that they are freely available to all.

So to move forward, I am asking community members to assist in one or more of the following items:

i) To contribute towards the purchase of the required test reports, either respond in this thread, or PM if you are willing to make a contribution. Please indicate the amount that you are willing to offer.
ii) For any people who would be interested in being in a group of modellers to develop ENG and WAG files for the nominated models. For this activity, there is a need to undertake research and testing. Based upon the UK experience I would expect that it is at least a 6 month commitment.
iii) For any models that can be used. For example they would need to be PRR models for which a test report exists. These might include the PRR T1, Q2, L1s, etc. Some appropriate rolling stock may also be required.

Please respond to this thread (or alternatively by PM) if you are willing to assist with one or more of the above tasks.

#2 User is offline   scottb613 

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 05:01 AM

Hi Peter,

I certainly greatly appreciate all the efforts by you and the rest of the ORTS Team - if a few bucks can help pave the way for a better simulator - I'll chip in - you have a PayPal account ? Sorry - I haven't made a PRR loco...

Regards,
Scott

#3 User is offline   James Ross 

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 12:21 PM

View Poststeamer_ctn, on 25 April 2018 - 08:57 PM, said:

i) To contribute towards the purchase of the required test reports, either respond in this thread, or PM if you are willing to make a contribution. Please indicate the amount that you are willing to offer.

I am willing to contribute to this; do we need $50US total, or is it $50US per report? I ask because I'm okay to put $100US to this goal, but I'm also okay with topping up and/or doubling others' contributions as desired.

#4 User is offline   roeter 

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 03:21 PM

View PostJames Ross, on 26 April 2018 - 12:21 PM, said:

I am willing to contribute to this; do we need $50US total, or is it $50US per report? I ask because I'm okay to put $100US to this goal, but I'm also okay with topping up and/or doubling others' contributions as desired.

I've send a PM to both Peter and James.

Regards,
Rob Roeterdink

#5 User is offline   steamer_ctn 

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 09:37 PM

Thanks for the replies that I have received via this thread, and also via PM (Still room for more).

To clarify the document costs, I have been quoted an approximate total figure of $50US for the Q2 document (total pages 159) , and I am assuming a similar cost for the T1 document (total pages 182), but I need to have a final quote confirmed. I am hoping to find some additional documents, for example perhaps the M1/M2, but so far I haven't had any luck.

As suggested in my starting post I have access to a number of BR(UK) test reports, but I am also hopeful of obtaining some more. In particular I am interested in some of the diesel electric test reports as these will provide some benchmarks for early diesel operation. I have a potential source for the BR test reports, but costs of scanning the reports would need to be covered. Perhaps some UK modellers can support the production of these ones?

As an indication of the test reports that I would hope to source ultimately, I have produced a list of the test reports that I have found online, and in red text, I have indicated the additional ones that I would hope to obtain. See this page.

If anybody is able to point me at any of the documents in red text, please let me know.

The one issue that I can't confirm at the moment is the relevant copyright for the documents in question. Depending upon the outcome of this investigation, the method of document distribution may need to be adjusted appropriately.

If there are any more people interested in "kicking the tin" in regards to funding please let me know.

In regards to item ii) above, ie People willing to set up the ENG and WAG files, are there any takers?

In regards to potential models that are possibly available for configuration, I am aware of the following:
i) Ones that I have already used - E2a (Atlantic), H6a (Consolidation), etc see the test stock page.
ii) Ones that I think I can use (pending final approval from modellers for hosting on the CTN site) - T1, K4, I1s
iii) Models required - L1s, H8SB, E3SD, K29, K2SA, E6S, Q2 and some appropriate rolling stock. Any thoughts or suggestions in regard to obtaining relevant stock.

Thanks

#6 User is offline   longiron 

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 04:45 AM

View Poststeamer_ctn, on 26 April 2018 - 09:37 PM, said:

In regards to item ii) above, ie People willing to set up the ENG and WAG files, are there any takers?

In regards to potential models that are possibly available for configuration, I am aware of the following:
i) Ones that I have already used - E2a (Atlantic), H6a (Consolidation), etc see the test stock page.
ii) Ones that I think I can use (pending final approval from modellers for hosting on the CTN site) - T1, K4, I1s
iii) Models required - L1s, H8SB, E3SD, K29, K2SA, E6S, Q2 and some appropriate rolling stock. Any thoughts or suggestions in regard to obtaining relevant stock.

Thanks

Peter,
The unique thing about MSTS/OR is the physics is completely separate from the content - i.e. any ENG file can be associated with any S file. So we don't need models for each and every configuration to be tested, just appropriate ENG files with just one S file.

Regarding American steam locomotives - I would try to find data for a 2-8-2 configuration, as this was ubiquitous and good performance baseline. My special interest is getting better physics for simple articulated steam locomotives - where both sets of cylinders get steam directly from the boiler. Two ENG files are generally required for all articulated models (Player and AI) - and we don't have good guidelines for OR ENG setup.
Thanks for all your effort on this topic.

#7 User is offline   scottb613 

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 06:14 AM

View Postlongiron, on 27 April 2018 - 04:45 AM, said:

Peter,
The unique thing about MSTS/OR is the physics is completely separate from the content - i.e. any ENG file can be associated with any S file. So we don't need models for each and every configuration to be tested, just appropriate ENG files with just one S file.

Regarding American steam locomotives - I would try to find data for a 2-8-2 configuration, as this was ubiquitous and good performance baseline. My special interest is getting better physics for simple articulated steam locomotives - where both sets of cylinders get steam directly from the boiler. Two ENG files are generally required for all articulated models (Player and AI) - and we don't have good guidelines for OR ENG setup.
Thanks for all your effort on this topic.


Just an FYI reminder: I think Articulated engines need remote control of the second set of cylinder cocks - also - can we support more than one exhaust emitter on single locomotives ?

I could certainly use some good examples of the new ORTS features that can be utilized - - example models setup correctly - we should have sticky posts to examples of each - as so much extremely valuable information seems buried in 40 page threads:

  • Steam Locomotive
  • Diesel Locomotive
  • Freight Cars
  • 3D Cabs



Regards,
Scott

#8 User is offline   jonInMaine 

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 07:29 AM

As Chris suggested it would be good to find data on a more common type such as a 2-8-2. I would suggest the USRA Light Mikado of which over 600 were built for many railroads including the B&O and New York Central. The PRR T1 and Q2 are fascinating machines built in the twilight of steam traction but as such might not be the best examples for people to use as a starting point for setting up .eng files.

#9 User is offline   jonInMaine 

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 07:29 AM

As Chris suggested it would be good to find data on a more common type such as a 2-8-2. I would suggest the USRA Light Mikado of which over 600 were built for many railroads including the B&O and New York Central. The PRR T1 and Q2 are fascinating machines built in the twilight of steam traction but as such might not be the best examples for people to use as a starting point for setting up .eng files.

#10 User is offline   copperpen 

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 08:47 AM

View Postscottb613, on 27 April 2018 - 06:14 AM, said:

Just an FYI reminder: I think Articulated engines need remote control of the second set of cylinder cocks - also - can we support more than one exhaust emitter on single locomotives ?

Regards,
Scott


Yes you can. I don't know what the maximum is, but I did set one up with 4 exhaust emitters and all worked.

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