[vince]

Procopius, on 07 February 2018 - 04:33 AM, said:

Yeah, I use Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit and I had never used that tool either. I found for my needs just make the window I want to capture active and then hit <Ctl><Prt Scn>/ I'll have to play with this. Either way I use GIMP to create a .jpg or .png from the screen grab. OK, so in the future I'll try attaching a screen grab of the <F5> screen. Thanks for the help.-- Roger

Mornin' Roger,
Did you figure out the problem or are you still in the ditch?

Quote

to capture active and then hit <Ctl><Prt Scn>/ I'll have to play with this.

Strange that on my W10 system I use <Alt><PrtScn> to capture only the picture on the active monitor.
I have two monitors and a print screen without using the <Alt> key captures both monitors which I then needed to crop to size. The Alt key thing eliminates that problem.
(This was a tip from Charles (cr-stagg) a few days ago)

vince

[Procopius]

vince, on 07 February 2018 - 09:48 AM, said:

Mornin' Roger,
Did you figure out the problem or are you still in the ditch?

<snip>

vince

Sorry for the delay. I got busy, and then I had a problem figuring out how to add more than one attachment to the post. It should have been apparent to me -- I've been working with personal computers/microcomputers since 1976, But I guess I was caught in a Senior Moment. Anyway, here finally is the story.

I have GTW Holly Subdivision (gthollyv2.zip) set up in a non-MSTS Open Rails folder, according to the sketchy instructions in the manual. I was trying to run the Connor activity (connor.zip). The first reversing point is a couple of miles from the starting point, and the speed limit is only 15 MPH, so I have occasion to use the brakes a couple of times before reaching the reversing point. No problem, the brakes work and release as expecected. When I have passed the reverse point and have to stop and reverse, when I press the apostrophe key I get a message "TCS emergency brake applied" of something like that. The message fades out before I can actually memorize the words. Anyway, I haven't been able tl learn anything about a TCS emergency braking system from the manual. The manual says that to apply the emergency brake I should press the backspace key, and to release the emergency brake I should press the backspace key again. After the train has come to a stip, I press the semicolon key to release the brakes, and I get the message, "Train Brake: release TCS emergency braking ..." Pressing backspace does not have any effect. Pressing <Ctl> / gives me a message saying the brakes have been initialized, but the emergency brakes are still not released.

I've attached the screen ship ot the <shft><f5> brake data as ErrMsg1.jpg, a shot of the error messages I get when I exit the activity as ErrMsg2.jpg and the compressed archibe of the log file.

Attached thumbnail(s)

• 
• 

Attached File(s)

•  OpenRailsLog.zip (11.21K)
  Number of downloads: 262

[hroch]

Hello,

You tried pressing 2x Ctrl+M?

[slipperman]

Hi Roger,
I note that you're using v1.2.3766 of Open Rails, and can understand why you might want to stick with a "stable" version.
However, there have been many enhancements and fixes since that was released more than a year ago (we are now at X4062).
I suggest you try the latest version :)

Cheers,
Ged

[railguy]

Taking the switches from automatic to manual operation (Ctl + M) will allow you to release the emergency application. However, do not put the switches back into automatic operation until your train is back on path (this shows as the train icon being white on the F4 HUD) or you may get another emergency application. Also, from an emergency application, as it is in prototype, it may take some time to recharge the brake system, as an emergency application exhausts the main air reservoirs on the cars. On a long train, left to charge prototypically (not using the "initialize brakes" keystroke), it can take 5 to 20 minutes to recharge the brake system. Part of that delay in the sim is because only the player locomotive's air compressor is contributing airflow to charge the system--in prototype with MU locomotives, their compressors are generally cut into the train line so that they contribute air as well. I consider the lack of the ability to use that feature in OR as a bug that I hope will eventually get addressed.

[Genma Saotome]

vince, on 06 February 2018 - 10:45 AM, said:

The only one I could think of is 'How did I get the nice black background for the display?'

Easy, you use the The 'Big Black Under-the-world-Disk' as your background. Makes reading the HUD sooo much easier
vince

Clever!, VERY clever!

Thanks for posting this idea.

[Procopius]

railguy, on 11 February 2018 - 08:59 AM, said:

Taking the switches from automatic to manual operation (Ctl + M) will allow you to release the emergency application. However, do not put the switches back into automatic operation until your train is back on path (this shows as the train icon being white on the F4 HUD) or you may get another emergency application. Also, from an emergency application, as it is in prototype, it may take some time to recharge the brake system, as an emergency application exhausts the main air reservoirs on the cars. On a long train, left to charge prototypically (not using the "initialize brakes" keystroke), it can take 5 to 20 minutes to recharge the brake system. Part of that delay in the sim is because only the player locomotive's air compressor is contributing airflow to charge the system--in prototype with MU locomotives, their compressors are generally cut into the train line so that they contribute air as well. I consider the lack of the ability to use that feature in OR as a bug that I hope will eventually get addressed.

I haven't tried this yet, but I will, and if it works will let you all know. However, this leaves some questions unanswered. What is the TCS emergency brake system? Why is the locomotive's brake system affected by the state of the switches? Just suppose I wanted to apply the TCS emergency brake system, how would I do that? I do not find it described in the manual. If I set the switches to manual control, will the reverse point automatic switch setting continue to work? I son't min operating the switches manually if there's some explanation in the Work Order or pop-ups, but this activity seems to have neither. Is there some reason why this problem occurs after clearing the first reversing point? I don't know if I want to ask all these questions.

Open Rails looks nice, but it seems like there are too many activities that don't work on it. I have too many activities involving steam engines that come to a halt after fifteen minutes, with no obvious reason. None of the activities in NEC 4.0 work. It's annoying when I try to start and I'm told the throttle is locked until I release the dynamic brakes, and I still don't know how to do that (there is no mention of the procedure in the manual) so I try things at random for thirty seconds to a minute. I seem to have more success with the search function at Elvas Towers, but it's still a pain. I think I have only succeeded once finding something in the archived posts at trainsim. Oh, well, thanks to everybody who has tried to help.

[railguy]

OR emulates ATS or PTC in that it will set the brakes into emergency if the player train passes a stop signal without getting permission from the Dispatcher to pass it (Tab). OR won't let the brakes then release until the sim is taken to Manual switch operation, which takes the signal restriction off.

Now, in real world railroading, a train wishing to pass a stop signal would generally require the Conductor to contact the Dispatcher, something like this (abbreviated):

Conductor: "UP 2931 west requesting permission to pass the red signal at East Switch Jonesville."
Dispatcher: "After stopping, UP 2931 west has permission to pass signal displaying stop at East Switch Jonesville."

Taking a switch into manual operation would usually have the Dispatcher saying something like this: "UP 2931 west has permission to manually operate the Switch at East Jonesville Main Track to Siding."

Exact wording can differ and most everything requires a repeat back with the Dispatcher answering "That is correct" when the repeat back is complete without errors.

A great way to learn this stuff is to listen to a radio feed on railroadradio.net or Broadcastify. I will sometimes have a feed running in the background when I'm running an OR activity, especially if a feed is available that coincides with a route that I'm running.

As to dynamic brakes "<" or ">" reduces or increases dynamic braking, respectively. Note, in prototype and in most MSTS/OR locomotives, there is an approximately 10 second delay when the engineer "sets up" a dynamic brake application. F1 in the sim opens up the keyboard command help, which is also in the manual. Read it. Just as in prototype, some passenger locomotives have "blended braking." In those, when the regular train brakes are applied, the locomotive also goes into dynamic braking. In those cases, when the player releases the train brakes, he also has to release dynamic braking using the "<" key--note that dynamic brakes are not fully released when the display shows "0%"--they are released when the display says "Off".

[Procopius]

railguy, on 12 February 2018 - 11:05 AM, said:

OR emulates ATS or PTC in that it will set the brakes into emergency if the player train passes a stop signal without getting permission from the Dispatcher to pass it (Tab). OR won't let the brakes then release until the sim is taken to Manual switch operation, which takes the signal restriction off.

Now, in real world railroading, a train wishing to pass a stop signal would generally require the Conductor to contact the Dispatcher, something like this (abbreviated):

Conductor: "UP 2931 west requesting permission to pass the red signal at East Switch Jonesville."
Dispatcher: "After stopping, UP 2931 west has permission to pass signal displaying stop at East Switch Jonesville."

Taking a switch into manual operation would usually have the Dispatcher saying something like this: "UP 2931 west has permission to manually operate the Switch at East Jonesville Main Track to Siding."

Exact wording can differ and most everything requires a repeat back with the Dispatcher answering "That is correct" when the repeat back is complete without errors.

A great way to learn this stuff is to listen to a radio feed on railroadradio.net or Broadcastify. I will sometimes have a feed running in the background when I'm running an OR activity, especially if a feed is available that coincides with a route that I'm running.

As to dynamic brakes "<" or ">" reduces or increases dynamic braking, respectively. Note, in prototype and in most MSTS/OR locomotives, there is an approximately 10 second delay when the engineer "sets up" a dynamic brake application. F1 in the sim opens up the keyboard command help, which is also in the manual. Read it. Just as in prototype, some passenger locomotives have "blended braking." In those, when the regular train brakes are applied, the locomotive also goes into dynamic braking. In those cases, when the player releases the train brakes, he also has to release dynamic braking using the "<" key--note that dynamic brakes are not fully released when the display shows "0%"--they are released when the display says "Off".

Thank you for your reply, but I am afraid it's not relevant. There is no signal at the point where I pass the reverse point (the white u-shaped arrow disappears). I don't know how OR handles that, but MSTS ends the activity if you pass a signal without asking permission from the dispatcher (press the TAB key). The few activities I've managed to play successfully in OR have not had the requirement to pass a stop signal that I can recall. In the MSTS routes the dispatcher gives a verbal permission, "Permission granted." I also have a couple of English routes where the dispatcher says, "Proceed with caution."

Am I supposed to be pressing the <shift> key when controlling the dynamic brakes? I was using the "," and ".", same as MSTS. I found that after fiddling with increasing and then decreasing the dynamic brakes I can finally get them to release, but it's not clear to me how much I have to increase the brake before that works. It's very annoying, anyway. I remember seeing this question asked in another thread, but it was never answered there. Yes, I know the delay in setting up dynamic braking. I've used the dynamic brakes in several MSTS activities.
--
Roger

[railguy]

Pressing the Backspace key initiates an emergency brake application ("big holing" the train in American railroad parlance). As in real railroading, it should only be used as a last resort. For dynamics, do not use the shift key--you are absolutely correct that "," and "." are the dynamic brake control. Dynamic brakes, depending on the locomotive, may be "notched" just like the throttle or may be completely variable. How much dynamic to use? Well, that's where you get into the finesse needed for prototype train handling. Whether using dynamics or air brakes, the thing that most simmers do not get right is planning ahead. They let a train "get away from them" and then have to make heavy applications. It's not like driving a car or even a semi-truck. Knowing the track profile of the route is important--then you can anticipate when to make applications and releases of either dynamics or air brakes. To be fair, I learned how to do a lot of this from real railroaders with decades of experience at it, as I work in the railroad industry (not as a Conductor or Engineer, though) in "real life." In the sim, you don't get the physical "feel" of what the train is doing, but you can learn to "sense" it after you watch the train behavior, observe the HUD track monitor, etc.--things like when the train is "bunched" or "stretched", how much braking force in being applied (for example, a 5 lb. reduction of the train line will initiate a fairly light brake application, 10 lbs. moderate, and 20 lbs. heavy), etc. Using the right "mix" of dynamics and air brakes is another strategy that must take into account things like ruling grade, length and tonnage of train, number of operating dynamic brakes, etc., etc. For example, on fairly steep but undulating downgrades, an engineer may choose to make a light set of air and just leave it set, maintaining correct train speed by modulating the dynamics. OR, with its more realistic brake line recharge times, will also allow an engineer to (foolishly) "piss away his air"--that is, making too many air brake applications and releases in a period of time to give the brake system time to recharge. In real world railroading on steep mountain grades, that can lead to an uncontrollable runaway.

Some other "tricks" that prototype locomotive engineers use--when starting a stopped train, the engineer will usually fully set the locomotive independent brake, then release the train brakes. Once the train brakes are released, he will notch out the throttle to Run 2 or Run3, then slowly release the independent brake. This allows him to slowly "stretch out" the train with minimal slack action. When stopping, the engineer will often leave the throttle in Run 1 or Run 2 until the train is stopped, stopping the train with the train brakes. This allows him to keep the train "stretched" without a lot of slack run in. When using dynamics only to slow a train, he will often begin with just a very light use of dynamics to allow the train to gently bunch up and then modulate the dynamics pretty gently to maintain correct train speed without "stretching" the train. One thing that OR has not modeled yet is for the engineer to control mid-train ("swing") and rear helpers or Distributed Power units independently from the lead locomotives ('on the point"). In DP terms, the engineer setting up the DP units to control them independently is known as "building the fence." On long trains running on undulating grades this is necessary since it is possible for, say, the front half of a train to be on an ascending grade, while the rear half is still on a descending grade. It is possible in that circumstance that the lead units would be in "power", while the swing and rear DP units to still be in dynamics. The Run8 simulator will allow this, OR not yet. Tricky in real world railroading to control a train with the fence built?--you bet.

Candidly, train physics in MSTS and TS2*** are not realistic--they're "game" level physics. OR, while far from perfect, is much closer to real world operation. Run8 is probably the best sim for physics, but it lacks other stuff that I like. Probably more information than you wanted, but learning train physics and correct train handling that would be done in real world railroading takes train simming to a higher and more fun level for me.