[vince]

A rendering issue? No, it is not. When I drive a test train, just a single engine, I get a very noticeable jump / jog / jerk when I drive over these 'rendering' of TDB lines.
Positioning the camera at trackside and observing a train passing the spot shows every car of the consist making a frightening jump as they pass over this tracksection. Rendering? Not!

How do you think I find these mis-aligned TDB problems? Go looking for them? No! I see the test train jump in the Sim!
When I see a jump while operating in the OR Sim running my test activity I make a note of the location and the next time I'm in the editor I visit the location and take a screenshot of the problem.
I designed the test activity to run through every track I previously worked on. reversing back and forth in autopilot mode while Im sit back and enjoy a cup of . . .

You (Goku) say It's a rendering problem . . . well then please explain how this A3t10mStrt shows up with one of the paths on the 3 track section has gone missing?
Here's the evidence;  TDB_Alignment-10.jpg (287.03K)
Number of downloads: 22

I found it while driving and experienced a violent jump as I passed over the point and was nearly 'rendered' out of my seat!
It's NOT a rendering problem when one third of the 3 paths through the track section goes missing.

I was able to correct the missing line by the method I've detailed and here will detail it again:

Method to re-align TDB lines
1. Select the A3t10mStrt tracksection and press the 'Z' key & the 2 remaining TDB lines vanish.
2. De-select the A3t10mStrt tracksection. Save.
3. Again select the A3t10mStrt tracksection and press the 'Z' key. Save.
All the proper TDB lines now appear correctly lined up.
4. Save.
Done! All tdb lines now appear (render) lined up correctly. A test train run over this A3t10mStrt tracksection is now as smooth as a newborn baby's bottom, just the way it should be and no more passengers flying out of their seats . . . http://www.elvastower.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/whistling.gif

I have nine additional screengrabs of other mis-alignment problems if you need to see them.
ALL of them produced a physical movement of the test train engines and cars (wagons) when driven over the track sections shown in the pics.

I did upload your requested copy of the route to DropBox but I do not know of any more (but I'm sure there are) mis-alignments.
I will load up the route and while staying away from the tile that crashes, I will look for some examples and get you the exact location when I release the route to you. This way you will get everything you requested in one shot.

I STILL have to figure out what info I have to send you (via private message) on what to access in DropBox so please bear with me while I get everything set up to send it to you. This is my first use of DropBox. Can't use the nz sitr as I've misplaced my encryption key . . .http://www.elvastower.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/censored2.gif
Thanks for your patience.

Best regards,
vince

[vince]

As 'a picture is worth a thousand words' two pictures and a video tell the story better that I can.
The TDB lines appear to be mis-aligned.  MisAlignTDBExibB.jpg (164.14K)
Number of downloads: 4 and the other end of the tracksection:  MisAlignTDBExibC.jpg (196.48K)
Number of downloads: 4
And here is the result when a train passes over the trach in the pictures:
https://www.dropbox....ned_TDB-PRR.mp4
(link no longer valid)

This particular error detailed here is in the copy of the route I sent to you.
It's the south exit of the Philly 30th st. station, upper level.

regards,
vince
Goku, see your PM
And thanks for your hard works with this editor. v

[Garry]

I have also had the problem of one track not having a yellow tdb line when I have laid sections of multi track, eg A5t100m. I have not noticed this as a problem when laying the track, it has always been some time later that I have noticed it. This appears to be the same with Vince, as his image shows the missing section to be in the middle of a completed section.
I think the "missing section" must still be there but perhaps in the wrong place. If I set up an activity, then delete a section of the track, open rails will not run the activity. It would be interesting to see what is shown in activity editor. Is there a gap in the track line? Does the train route go across the gap? Does it jump across onto the next track and then jump back again.
Next time I see this problem I will look in Activity Editor before correcting it in the route editor.

I have not noticed the track discontinuity at points, but I have not done much train driving (having too much fun route building) and I think it will be difficult to see by chance in the route editor. I wonder if this is a fault specific to a particular track piece? I have not used the points that Vince mentioned, most of my route uses A1tPnt10d150rRgtMnl.s and others in this series or A1tPnt7.5 etc.

Garry

[vince]

Good morning,
The track section with the missing 1 TDB line out of the 3 that should be there is a plain vanilla A3t10mStrt section.
This particular track sections TDB lines were all there when I was working in the area, correcting another track section that was an easy-to-spot 1/2 meter vertical alignment in a A4t1000r20d curve section on the main line that produced a violent jump when driven over.
The physical (visual) alignment was perfect but ALL the TDB lines were off alignment vertically.

I corrected the problem in the 20d curve section, ran a test train and all was well including the A3t10mStrt section! The 10 meter sections TDB line apparently want missing while I was editing elsewhere in the Philadelphia terminal area, about 3 miles south of this location so I never saw when it actually went missing and found it by chance when I ran another activity that happened to run through the bad section.
I am astonished that Goku thinks this may be a rendering problem. http://www.elvastower.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/jawdrop2.gif

There have been several instances of track sections with multiple TDB paths have one of the paths go missing and YES, the train DOES in fact drive through the pictured section with a violent forward / backward jerk.
That is how I've found these errors, not by sight but by being 'rendered' out of my seat!

Don't bother going looking for them in the editor. They're too hard to spot especially in crowded track areas but they can be spotted during casual fly-bys in the editor. I have seen and corrected a few I've seen when installing scenery and tidying up terrain.
This is why I always run a short test activity that runs in autopilot mode with reverse points so I run through most of the track I have edited in a session. The video & pictures shows how hard it is to spot these anomalies visually in the editor. A test run is vital for catching these glitches. Keep test run simple: A two engine lash-up is good, cab at each end simplifies running. Video is example.

The 3 track 10 meter section with one TDB line missing was far (3 miles) from the area I was editing and I only found it when I ran another activity that just happened to pass through the section with the missing TDB line.

To Goku: I hope you got the PRR route okay and if there is any info, files or whatnot you need, just ask and I will provide.

regards,
vince

Note to Route Builders
It's very important that you run a short simple test activity through an area that you've edited
Make a simple short activity with reverse points that have your test engine (no big consist) back and forth through all the tracks you have edited in a session. Run this activity in Autopilot Mode so you can sit back and have a cup while you observe train operation. It of course should be smooth running. Any jumping or jerking to the side pause and make a note then continue. Next time you open the editor first priority is to visit any area noted from the test run. enjoy! v

[ebnertra000]

Vince,

I think he's referring to my issue as a rendering problem, as the TSection lines can be quite out of whack while the TDB lines up perfectly and a train can cross any such joints without issue. I brought it up because I thought it might be similar to yours. Your issue, on the other hand, is definitely no rendering problem, as it does affect trains and mess with the TDB

[vince]

ebnertra000, on 16 December 2017 - 12:55 PM, said:

Vince, I think he's referring to my issue as a rendering problem, as the TSection lines can be quite out of whack while the TDB lines up perfectly and a train can cross any such joints without issue. I brought it up because I thought it might be similar to yours. Your issue, on the other hand, is definitely no rendering problem, as it does affect trains and mess with the TDB

Maybe but I think he called one of my reports a render problem too but that's no matter.
First, what I'm referring to here is the TDB line that sits over the track. You say the "TSection Lines" . . . No,
I speak only of the yellow TDB lines because this is what the trains actually run on!
Not on the tracks or the TSection lines! Here's a good tutorial with pictures on where trains actually run and it ain't on the tracks as you'd expect!
Reference here >>>===> http://msts.steam4me...lders_work.html
A great graphic example of what those yellow lines are. Thank you Jim!

This is why, if those yellow TDB lines are not lined up as you see in my pics, you will experience a jerk as the train running on that yellow line jumps to (it looks like but not sure of this) the nearest track end point. Like I said, the train gave a really violent jump forward when driving on that 3track 10 meter section missing a chunk of the TDB.
regards,
vince

ps.
have you actually run a train over that track that was displaced (yellow line not aligned) along with the signals ? v

[Goku]

Quote

I am astonished that Goku thinks this may be a rendering problem. Posted Image

You are so annoying. I was talking to ebnertra000. He posted totaly different thing than you.

Quote

You (Goku) say It's a rendering problem . . . well then please explain how this A3t10mStrt shows up with one of the paths on the 3 track section has gone missing?
Here's the evidence;

In fact I have one idea. Maybe it is related to "adjacent track not loaded" error in MSRE. TSRE will ignore this error and allow you to edit/remove broken track. In most cases it is good solution, but sometimes the broken track "Tile+UiD" might be in collision with another track, so TSRE will remove more than one track.
It would explain why you have somany issues here because you are editing route with a lot of errors, but it doesn't explain all cases, like this shifted TDB lines. That's why I need to look on your route.

[vince]

Goku,
Sorry, but you would be better served if you directed your reply's.

This three track 10 meter track piece was in perfect shape on my previous run activity and visual inspections previously. I had gone over this area correcting floating trees and buildings, terrain on track and I would have noticed such a glaring thing as a missing TDB line.

Like I said, I discovered this one in an activity when the engine was violently shaken as I passed over the section. I paused OR, go out of train in view8 and visually inspected tthe track. No trackshape mis-aligns were seen. I made a note as to the location and the next time I opened the editor went to the location, saw the missing TDB line, took a screenshot, ran my few steps to correct the error ans all was well both visually and physically. Done.
Now could you please explain how the TDB lines get SEPERATED at the point end of a switch? Both those TDB lines share the same point. They should never move in relation to each other . . .  TDB_Alignment-06.jpg (120.79K)
Number of downloads: 2

But apparently they do.

regards,
vince

[Goku]

Quote

As 'a picture is worth a thousand words' two pictures and a video tell the story better that I can.
The TDB lines appear to be mis-aligned.

All the misaligned tracks are in the same trvector node where 19917 junction is. So, I'm almost sure that they were damaged when you "fixed" 19917 junction. As I desctibed earlier - the error was just moved to another place, not fixed.

Quote

Resetting the TDB for this switch via the 'Z' key lines it up every time but I sometimes discover that another tracksection somewhere in the area has gone mis-aligned.

If you want to fix this kind of error, you need to remove from TDB whole vector (all tracks that are in it) and then add them.

If you think it is TSRE fault, you can backup route .TDB and tsection.dat files between huge edits, and in the future I'll make function to check whole TDB for misaligning tracks (in fact it was done by me years ago but I lost it xD), so it will be possible to check if the errors are spawned around.

[vince]

Goku, on 21 December 2017 - 12:48 PM, said:

All the misaligned tracks are in the same trvector node where 19917 junction is. So, I'm almost sure that they were damaged when you "fixed" 19917 junction. As I desctibed earlier - the error was just moved to another place, not fixed. If you want to fix this kind of error, you need to remove from TDB whole vector (all tracks that are in it) and then add them.

When you say " remove from TDB whole vector (all tracks that are in it)" Do you mean delete the track shapes?
I hope not!

Goku, on 21 December 2017 - 12:48 PM, said:

Quote

I did check all tracks on that vector after I applied my 'fix'. All yellow TDB lins were perfectly aligned.

If you think it is TSRE fault, you can backup route .TDB and tsection.dat files between huge edits, and in the future I'll make function to check whole TDB for misaligning tracks (in fact it was done by me years ago but I lost it xD), so it will be possible to check if the errors are spawned around.

Okay, using the 'Z' key, I removed all the TDB lines between the two junctions involved here; 19917 and 19905 There are 6 track sections between the two junction nodes and voila! I see exactly what you say.
Correcting the misalign at 19917 moved the mis-align to Junction 19905. Okay so far . . .
++ Now I use 'Z' to remove all TDB lines between 19917 and 19905.
++ I now use 'Z' and restore the TDB lines between the two junctions.
++ Saving gets me a new junction number for 19917; 19960. Is this okay?


Now how do I prevent this sort of thing happening?
http://www.elvastowe...post__p__229978

This illustrates how I first noticed the problem. A track section with multiple vectors with one vector missing. That one I caught visually in the ladder tracks at the north end of the Philly terminal. As I looked for other errors I found the mis-aligned switches (junctions).

The mis-aligned vectors I could possibly live with but the missing vector in a multi vector track section is a serious show stopper.

Backing up TDB & Local TSection dat files not workable either. Cause world file sync problems?

I do a route backup after every editing session. These errors seem to 'creep in' even when I'm NOT editing track. IOW, I'll be editing terrain and I'll see a mis-alignment that I KNOW was OK when I began editing!

When I reviewed several backups there were some locations that were fine and no editing done in that location show up with missing or mis-aligned TDB lines. So even a backup is worthless.
How can I possibly install track with the thought that somewhere on the route a TDB vector might vanish? No way.
There has to be a check comparing world/tit/tdb when saving. More time? Yes, sure but consider the safety.
I don't know how a save executes with MSRE but with this PRR route it takes 15 time longer than your save does!

Did you have any luck with the tile that crashes? -11009 14319 Do you need any more information?

regards,
vince