Elvas Tower: VERY frustrated with the TSRE AE interface - Elvas Tower

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VERY frustrated with the TSRE AE interface Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   railguy 

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 09:27 PM

After working all day today with the TSRE AE (Version 0.6933), I can only say that the interface is still clunky and unreliable--this comment from a guy who used to test software functionality as part of my regular job. Let me explain:

I built an activity in the TSRE AE, not without frustration, but I did manage to get it saved. I later hand entered ORTS weather change events manually into the .act file--they worked as intended. I then decided to add an additional service to the .trf file and saved (supposedly) the changes to the .act file. Here is what I got: the traffic file was updated properly, no problem there. But, I never could get the .act file to show the additional service added, no matter how many times I saved the .act file. I found out that the only way to get the .act file to save at all was to make a minor change in activity description part of the file, then save the .act file--it would save, but IT WOULD NOT SAVE THE ADDITIONAL SERVICE FROM THE UPDATED TRAFFIC FILE TO THE .ACT FILE. Worse yet, the saved .act file had corrupted data in the ORTS weather change entries THAT I DID NOT TOUCH WHEN I EDITED THE .ACT FILE IN THE TSRE AE.

Now, the only way that could see if the .act file was updating at all was to look at it in the Windows File Manager to see if a new update time showed up. So, in short, big problems.

I will reiterate what I had posted earlier: The activity window in the TSRE AE should have its own file save procedure separate from the Route save functions in TSRE--and, additionally, the program should show a confirmation message that the .act file was indeed saved. Same with .srv, .trf files, too. Users should not have to rummage around in the Windows File Manager to figure out what the heck TSRE is saving (or not).

Make no mistake, I am eternally grateful to Goku for developing these programs--without them OR would be lost. That said, if OR and the TSRE are to be successful, the TSRE and its AE must be reliable enough that a typical user won't pull their hair out in frustration trying to use the program. That kind of nonsense is what has chased a lot of people away from clunky ol' MSTS. I do realize that the TSRE is still in Beta, so I am trying to be patient with bugs in the program, but these "bugs" are pretty basic stuff in software that should be addressed early in the development of the software.

#2 User is offline   Goku 

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 03:19 AM

View Postrailguy, on 26 November 2017 - 09:27 PM, said:

I built an activity in the TSRE AE, not without frustration, but I did manage to get it saved. I later hand entered ORTS weather change events manually into the .act file--they worked as intended. I then decided to add an additional service to the .trf file and saved (supposedly) the changes to the .act file. Here is what I got: the traffic file was updated properly, no problem there. But, I never could get the .act file to show the additional service added, no matter how many times I saved the .act file.

When you edit traffic, for example add new services, you need to reselect this traffic under the "Traffic" label. If it doesn't work this way and changes aren't saved - it is a bug and needs to be fixed.

View Postrailguy, on 26 November 2017 - 09:27 PM, said:

Worse yet, the saved .act file had corrupted data in the ORTS weather change entries THAT I DID NOT TOUCH WHEN I EDITED THE .ACT FILE IN THE TSRE AE.

The Weather bug was reported yesterday? If your is different, you can describe it. Also, you should use TSRE interface for Weather events, not editing .act file by hand (but it should be possible anyway).

View Postrailguy, on 26 November 2017 - 09:27 PM, said:

Now, the only way that could see if the .act file was updating at all was to look at it in the Windows File Manager to see if a new update time showed up. So, in short, big problems.

When you try to close TSRE, it will always show you what files will be saved.

View Postrailguy, on 26 November 2017 - 09:27 PM, said:

I will reiterate what I had posted earlier: The activity window in the TSRE AE should have its own file save procedure separate from the Route save functions in TSRE--and, additionally, the program should show a confirmation message that the .act file was indeed saved. Same with .srv, .trf files, too. Users should not have to rummage around in the Windows File Manager to figure out what the heck TSRE is saving (or not).

It has nothing to do with your problems.

View Postrailguy, on 26 November 2017 - 09:27 PM, said:

I am trying to be patient with bugs in the program, but these "bugs" are pretty basic stuff in software that should be addressed early in the development of the software.

Next time instead of "being frustrated", just report bugs. TSRE RE is in advanced development, but TSRE AE is in really early development stage.
And that's the difference between TSRE editors and MSTS editors. In the second case you have to live with the frustration, in TSRE it can be fixed.

#3 User is offline   Woodfyr 

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 03:25 AM

FWIW. Think about us non-programming types that have totally given up on MSTS AE ("cause it just won't work). Since getting back into TS with OR, I have been patiently awaiting an AE. Goku has done a fantastic job of single-handedly developing software that could be the one factor that assures the continuation of this sim.
However, Goku is just one guy trying to satisfy a myriad of requests and problems that are inherent with developing software. "WE ALL" need to step back and let the man get the job done. With all due respect, might I suggest that Goku concentrate on that goal and not react to every post that arrives on scene daily.

Goku --- Stick with "Your" priority and keep up the great work !

#4 User is offline   Goku 

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 03:55 AM

Quote

"WE ALL" need to step back and let the man get the job done.

No, not "step back and wait", because I need the feedback and someone to find the bugs :)

#5 User is offline   railguy 

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 06:03 AM

Concerning the weather change bug, before editing the .act file with TSRE AE, I had the weather change function work correctly in the activity, with all times correct. After editing the .act file and managing to get it to save, this is what the weather change syntax looks like:

Events (
EventCategoryTime (
EventTypeTime ( )
ID ( 0 )
Activation_Level ( 1 )
Outcomes ( )
Name ( Time1 )
Time ( 5 )
ORTSContinue ( 0 )
ORTSWeatherChange (
ORTSOvercast ( 0.95 5400 )
ORTSFog ( 8.90821e-39 7274599 )
ORTSPrecipitationIntensity ( 8.72453e-39 6881388 )
ORTSPrecipitationLiquidity ( 1.06531e-38 0 )
)
)
EventCategoryTime (
EventTypeTime ( )
ID ( 1 )
Activation_Level ( 1 )
Outcomes ( )
Name ( Time2 )
Time ( 5200 )
ORTSContinue ( 0 )
ORTSWeatherChange (
ORTSOvercast ( 3.36312e-44 0 )
ORTSFog ( 1000 1300 )
ORTSPrecipitationIntensity ( 8.72453e-39 6881388 )
ORTSPrecipitationLiquidity ( 1.06531e-38 0 )
)
)
EventCategoryTime (
EventTypeTime ( )
ID ( 2 )
Activation_Level ( 1 )
Outcomes ( )
Name ( Time3 )
Time ( 6000 )
ORTSContinue ( 0 )
ORTSWeatherChange (
ORTSOvercast ( 3.36312e-44 0 )
ORTSFog ( 8.90821e-39 7274599 )
ORTSPrecipitationIntensity ( 8.72453e-39 6881388 )
ORTSPrecipitationLiquidity ( 0.3 1 )
)
)

Notice the exponential notations the Overcast, Fog, Intensity and Liquidity lines. It appears that the program does not like decimal entries in the Weather Change lines and misinterpets them.

As to the traffic entries, I did reselect the Traffic under the Traffic label--multiple tries, with no success. I do believe that is a bug. I will try later today to edit this activity based on your recommendations, Goku, to see if I missed any steps.

Thank you for your continuing efforts on the TSRE and AE programs, Goku. Please do not take criticisms of the program personally. We're all looking for the same thing--a working Route and Activity Editor, so that we all can (finally) leave MSTS behind.

#6 User is offline   slipperman 

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 06:04 AM

Hi railguy,

Quote

I then decided to add an additional service to the .trf file and saved (supposedly) the changes to the .act file. Here is what I got: the traffic file was updated properly, no problem there. ... but IT WOULD NOT SAVE THE ADDITIONAL SERVICE FROM THE UPDATED TRAFFIC FILE TO THE .ACT FILE

I am speaking from an MSTS AE point of view, which, I believe, Goku's AE is basically designed to replicate. A traffic file may have more Services than those listed in the .act file, therefore, just adding one into the .trf file should NOT mean that it's automatically transferred into the .act file. The only way a service should be added into the .act file is using the Traffic function within AE.

I apologise if I've interpreted your post incorrectly and you did, in fact, use AE to add the new Traffic service, in which case it may be a bug in Goku's AE.

Cheers,
Ged

#7 User is offline   railguy 

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 08:35 AM

^I used the AE to add the service in the Traffic function, but it did not save in the .act file, even when the .act file did actually save. The updated .trf saved, the .act file--nope.

#8 User is offline   Goku 

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 01:39 PM

Quote

After editing the .act file and managing to get it to save, this is what the weather change syntax looks like:

And can you show how it looked before?

#9 User is offline   railguy 

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 02:22 PM

Unfortunately, I did not back up the .act file before doing the AE save, so I don't have an uncorrupted copy. What I can tell you is that there were 5 separate weather events in the original file, which the TSRE AE crunched down into 3, plus corrupting the data with the exponential notations. My understanding of the weather change syntax is that one can program multiple events within one EventCategoryTime section, so long as the initiation time--"Time ( x )"-- for all of the events is the same. For example, if the overcast and fog initiation times are the same, they can be in one entry; if they are different--for example, 1800 seconds for overcast and 5000 for fog initiation, then each needs a separate EventCategoryTime section. In my .act file before TSRE AE save, there were 5 separate time initiations, so 5 EventCategoryTime sections, some of those with 2 change events in the section. I wonder if the TSRE AE is trying to consolidate multiple weather change entries into fewer EventCategoryTime sections. I also have yet to try using EventCategoryLocation to initiate a weather change. The OR manual says that this can be done, but I got stymied by this problem before I could get to try that. I will attempt to recreate the .act file weather change events manually tonight and post the result. If possible, I will test it in OR to make sure that it functions before posting it here.

As an aside, from my training in program use, I really don't like to bypass a GUI interface to manually edit a file--in this case, an .act file--however, the MSTS interface was so clunky that it often was necessary to do so and, as of right now, it is the case with some of the functions that are not fully implemented or working correctly in the TSRE AE.

#10 User is offline   railguy 

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 06:37 AM

I rebuilt the .act file manually last night and tested it. The ORTS Weather Changes in the file ran correctly. Here is that code:

Events (
EventCategoryTime (
EventTypeTime ( )
ID ( 0 )
Activation_Level ( 1 )
Outcomes ( )
Name ( Time1 )
Time ( 5 )
ORTSContinue ( 0 )
ORTSWeatherChange (
ORTSOvercast ( 0.95 5400 )
)
)
EventCategoryTime (
EventTypeTime ( )
ID ( 1 )
Activation_Level ( 1 )
Outcomes ( )
Name ( Time2 )
Time ( 5000 )
ORTSContinue ( 0 )
ORTSWeatherChange (
ORTSFog ( 1000 1200 )
)
)


EventCategoryTime (
EventTypeTime ( )
ID ( 2 )
Activation_Level ( 1 )
Outcomes ( )
Name ( Time3 )
Time ( 5400 )
ORTSContinue ( 0 )
ORTSWeatherChange (
ORTSPrecipitationIntensity ( 0.02 1200 )
ORTSPrecipitationLiquidity ( 0.3 1 )
)
)
EventCategoryTime (
EventTypeTime ( )
ID ( 3 )
Activation_Level ( 1 )
Outcomes ( )
Name ( Time4 )
Time ( 14380 )
ORTSContinue ( 0 )
ORTSWeatherChange (
ORTSOvercast ( 0.30 2100 )
ORTSFog ( 20000 1200 )
ORTSPrecipitationIntensity ( 0.00 1000 )
)
)

)

What the code does in the sim is increase overcast, then initiates increasing fog levels, initiates snow with increasing intensity, then (later) reduces snow intensity (until it stops altogether), reduces fog levels to unlimited visibility, and reduces cloud cover to partly cloudy. I would prefer in this particular activity, to initiate the weather changes by location events, but I haven't figured out how to do that yet. In the meantime, this does work. I haven't tried to save it in TSRE AE yet, as I still have some work to do on the activity paths in the OR path editor. I want to leave the .act file intact until I finish that.

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