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Include file standards Rate Topic: -----

#41 User is offline   Hamza97 

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 05:02 AM

This is how my .eng file looks with modular physics include files, neat and tidy still its not complete but this system also helps in physics fine tuning process. Just change one file and all loco with that include changes as well... :sign_rockon: 

SIMISA@@@@@@@@@@JINX0D0t______

Wagon ( BL_WCAM2P_21861
	Type ( Engine )
	WagonShape ( WCAM-2P_Gold_21861.s )

	include ( "../common.bgpro/Physics/WCAM2/BasicShape.inc" )
	include ( "../common.bgpro/Physics/Global/Coupler_Transition.inc" )
 	include ( "../common.bgpro/Physics/Global/Derail.inc" )
 	include ( "../common.bgpro/Physics/WCAM2/adhesion_friction.inc" )

	MaxBrakeForce ( 230kN )

	Inside (
		 PassengerCabinFile ( BL_WCAM2P.s )
		 PassengerCabinHeadPos ( -0.55 3.05 8.35 )
		 RotationLimit ( 45 90 90 )
		 StartDirection ( 0 0 0 )
	)

	include ( "../common.bgpro/Physics/Global/Standard_2P_Brakes.inc" )

	Sound ( "..\\..\\common.bgpro\\Sounds\\WCAM2\\WCAM_eng.sms" )

	include ( "../common.bgpro/Lights/WCAM2-2P.inc" )
	
	ORTSPantographs(
                         Pantograph( Delay( 5s )
                         )
                          Pantograph( Delay( 5s )
                         )
	)

Engine ( BL_WCAM2P_21861
    Wagon ( BL_WCAM2P_21861 )

    include ( "../common.bgpro/Physics/WCAM2/AC_4700HP.inc" )
    include ( "../common.bgpro/Physics/Global/Circuit_Breaker.inc" )

    include ( "../common.bgpro/Physics/Global/Standard_2P_AB.inc" )
    include ( "../common.bgpro/Physics/Global/Standard_2P_Controller.inc" )
    
    include ( "../common.bgpro/Physics/WCAM2/DB.inc" )
    include ( "../common.bgpro/Physics/WCAM2/VCD_OS.inc" )

    DoesBrakeCutPower( 0 )
    BrakeCutsPowerAtBrakeCylinderPressure( 15 )

    CabView ( CLW-Type-1.cvf )

    Sound ( wapcab.sms )

    Name ( "Valsad BL WCAM-2P 21861" )
    Description (
	"BGPro - BL WCAM-2P 21861 Balwant in sheds Orange-Blue livery"
    )
    
    include ( "../common.bgpro/Physics/Global/EOP_WCAM.inc" )
    include ( "../common.bgpro/Physics/Global/EC_Std_32_Notch_Electric.inc" )
    include ( "../common.bgpro/Physics/WCAM2/TE_curve.inc" )

)


The Global folders have .inc file which would apply globally to all locos. The WCAM2 holds file specific to WCAM-2P locos I am creating currently.

#42 User is offline   Genma Saotome 

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 10:07 AM

Four comments:

  • Many users will be confused by the use of both unix and windows styles of slashes. Pick one and stick with it.
  • Interesting idea combining the global and model specific directories into one tree.
  • "BasicShape" seems to be what I've called "MeshDefined". If that's the case you could move Type(), InsideView and Pantographs() as the odds are good none of those values will vary from one locomotive to another and all are descriptive of what the model maker put into the mesh. FWIW "basicShape" is a good name.
  • It is not obvious to me why you have separated \Lights as a subdirectory. Discussion below.


If you look at all of the various .inc files that would usually be created they all describe equipment of one kind or another. If you break out \Lights, why not \Brakes and \Couplers as well? Or \Alert Equipment? What I'm getting at is a difficult to answer matter of how much division to put into a directory tree and the logic used to come up with your answer. Stopping with a directory that means "equipment" is one answer. Going into more detail should argue for fleshing out all the relevant specializations, so if you do \physics then one answer is to add the equivalent of everything else, which might be \Equipment and that should include the lights. If you really want to do \Lights then why not all the other kinds of equipment too? IMO that's too much specialization for no obvious gain.

#43 User is offline   R H Steele 

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 12:07 PM

View PostGenma Saotome, on 19 March 2018 - 10:07 AM, said:

Many users will be confused by the use of both unix and windows styles of slashes. Pick one and stick with it.


Regarding Dave's observation, I refer you to this ET thread: Jovets post#6
http://www.elvastowe...542#entry220542


It is reasonably the least prone to error, and your Sound path string already uses it. I agree, adopt a standard.
Keep the format consistent, IMO, is an important advantage as it makes changes to all the files much easier. ( paraphrasing your own words)

#44 User is offline   Genma Saotome 

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 03:26 PM

I also recommend the use of the MS style. AFAIK it has the advantage that other utilities will know exactly what it means. For example my editor, EmEditor, will open the referenced .inc file when the MS backslash is used but will not open the file with a unix forward slash. This one feature has really helped me in that I know if I can open the file in my editor the path is correct. I don't need to be looking for error messages in the OR or TSRE Con editors to find out I goofed something.

#45 User is offline   Hamza97 

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 09:35 PM

Quote

If you look at all of the various .inc files that would usually be created they all describe equipment of one kind or another. If you break out \Lights, why not \Brakes and \Couplers as well? Or \Alert Equipment? What I'm getting at is a difficult to answer matter of how much division to put into a directory tree and the logic used to come up with your answer. Stopping with a directory that means "equipment" is one answer. Going into more detail should argue for fleshing out all the relevant specializations, so if you do \physics then one answer is to add the equivalent of everything else, which might be \Equipment and that should include the lights. If you really want to do \Lights then why not all the other kinds of equipment too? IMO that's too much specialization for no obvious gain.


The main reason to break out the light section is that this loco I have broken up in shed wise in trainset folder, for e.g. "BL WCAM-2P" & "KYN WCAM-2P", and as the physical loco shape is same only, I have broken the lights into its subfolder. Also many other loco are also arranged this way, so that if I were to modify them to with help of .inc file, it would help me to copy the existing lights.inc file, change the positions and point to it, every loco in different subfolders.

The logic behind Global and loco specific folder is such that couplers, brakes, controllers are mostly uniform across the loco fleet, atleast here on Indian Railways, so it makes sense to arrange them in such a way. And making different subfolders for different things like couplers, brakes, controllers would be IMHO too much specialization,as you said, for no obvious reason.

#46 User is offline   Genma Saotome 

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Posted 21 March 2018 - 09:12 AM

Hamza, I'm not questioning the creation of an .inc for lights -- that makes perfect sense; I was questioning the reasoning behind your use of a \lights directory.

Use of global and model specific directories make good sense too.

#47 User is offline   Hamza97 

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Posted 21 March 2018 - 08:38 PM

What you recommend instead of /lights directory...?? :pardon:

#48 User is offline   Lindsayts 

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Posted 24 March 2018 - 09:02 AM

View PostHamza97, on 21 March 2018 - 08:38 PM, said:

What you recommend instead of /lights directory...?? :pardon:


The lights are part of the loco's shape, so I put such files in the specfic loco's directory, makes it easier to find items unique to that class of loco.

Lindsay

#49 User is offline   Genma Saotome 

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Posted 24 March 2018 - 11:29 AM

View PostLindsayts, on 24 March 2018 - 09:02 AM, said:

The lights are part of the loco's shape, so I put such files in the specfic loco's directory, makes it easier to find items unique to that class of loco.

Lindsay


I would do the same if the mesh was skinned for only one railroad. If there were more than one I'd be moving files into railroad specific folders and then move the .inc files into a common. folder (I've been using \common.model\{model name plus modeler name}\Lights.inc).

That way the .inc files are moved out of the railroad folders (some of which which may be deleted from disuse) into a railroad-neutral location.

FWIW, something else I do is I'll often rename folders, ven mesh and textures, so there is more emphasis on class. This gets me to names like \RS_SFRD_Rr40 -- the type of car, the owner, the class id. And in it are all of the .wags for cars of that class. I can't do that universally but where I can with ease I do.

#50 User is offline   Genma Saotome 

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Posted 10 April 2018 - 05:25 PM

Based on feedback & discussion I've concluded there is no need to put a country code in the path statement to the .inc file. By and large people will create miniroutes for different countries and in doing so there's no need to redundantly put that in the path.

Another item I proposed -- Mesh_Defined.inc (for everything that describes the fixed attributes of whatever is being modeled) has been a problem name-wise from the beginning. Hamza suggested "Basic_Shape" and there is merit in that suggestion so considered (again) what it is I was trying to accomplish: a place where the game parameters for the basic shape, as defined in the mesh, are held. By this I mean things like Type(), Size(), Gauge(). None of that stuff ever changes, not even w/ reskins. What I finally came up with is the phrase Fixed_Specs. I'll implement that and see how it feels.

What had been {path}\USA\{model-name}\Mesh_Defined.inc
will become {path}\{model-name}\Fixed_Specs.inc


A different matter is the need for \common.fleet and \common.model; I remain convinced of the need for both but am not so sure that both as "home folders" in \trainset is wise. What I'm kicking around is replacing those with \common.inc and within that folders \Fleet and \Model. I think a third folder, either payware or vendor could be of some use but I'm not going to give much thought to it for now.

So to wrap up, I'm migrating folders and names again with the target of:
\trainset
\common.inc
\fleet
\model

I'll see how that goes.

#51 User is offline   Genma Saotome 

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 12:09 PM

Dunno if this will be informative but I did a quick search of my freight car library for the word Include and then removed the dups.

Note: I'm using the BB Code "spoiler" to hide rather long lists... just click on the white Spoiler box to display the full list

Aimed at Common.Inc\Fleet:
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Fleet\\single_Pipe_AB_Brakes.inc" )
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Fleet\\Single_Pipe_KC_Brakes.inc" )
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Fleet\\Std_Single_Pipe_AB_1_B_Brakes.inc" )
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Fleet\\Std_Tender_Couplers_Generic.inc" )
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Fleet\\Std_Type_D_Coupler_Generic_Draft_Gear.inc" )
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Fleet\\Std_Type_E_Coupler_Generic_Draft_Gear.inc" )
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Fleet\\Std_Type_H_Coupler_Generic_Draft_Gear.inc" )



Aimed at Common.Inc\Models:
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Models\\PS-1_Model_By_Larry_Goss\\PS-1_Fixed_Specs.inc" )
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Models\\PS-1_Model_By_Larry_Goss\\PS-1_MTY_Weight.inc" )
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Models\\USRA_DS_Boxcar_Tim_Muir_Model\\XM_USRA_DS_Fixed_Specs.inc" )
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Models\\USRA_DS_Boxcar_Tim_Muir_Model\\XM_USRA_DS_MTY_Weight.inc" )
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Models\\USRA_SS_Boxcar_Tim_Muir_Model\\XM_USRA_SS_Fixed_Specs.inc" )
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Models\\USRA_SS_Boxcar_Tim_Muir_Model\\XM_USRA_SS_Lumber_LD.inc" )
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Models\\USRA_SS_Boxcar_Tim_Muir_Model\\XM_USRA_SS_MTY_Weight.inc" )
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Models\\X29_&_ARA_Boxcar_By_Tim_Muir\\X29_&_ARA_Fixed_Specs.inc" )
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Models\\X29_&_ARA_Boxcar_By_Tim_Muir\\X29_&_ARA_MTY_Weight.inc" )
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Models\\USRA_DS_Boxcar_Tim_Muir_Model\\XM_USRA_DS_Fixed_Specs.inc" )


Left with the .wag or .engs:
Spoiler

As you can see most of the Common.Inc\Fleet files are for couplers and brake equipment. They are placed here because they are used by many folders in \trainset. Having them separated means they're safe from deletion if you decide to thin your roster and delete a couple of the car folders. The folder name is based on who made the 3d model and which model it is. That way you can take updates from someone and have clear idea of where the files belong.

Most of the files left in the folder with their .wags are fixed_specs and weight.


The combination of fixed_specs, couplers, break equipment, and weight related parameters represent about 75-80% of the lines in a typical .wag, IOW, going from ~60 lines to 12-15.




For locomotives, Include.Inc\Fleet:
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Fleet\\Early_Diesel_Era_Generic_AWS_Monitor.inc" )
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Fleet\\Early_Diesel_Era_Generic_Emergency_Stop_Monitor.inc" )
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Fleet\\Early_Diesel_Era_Generic_Vigilance_Monitor.inc" )
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Fleet\\Generic_Locomotive_Monitors.inc" )
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Fleet\\Std_Early_Road_Diesel_Independant_AB_Brake.inc" )
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Fleet\\Std_Late_Steam_Era_Diesel_Locomotive_Bar_&_Bar.inc" )
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Fleet\\Std_Late_Steam_Era_Diesel_Locomotive_Bar_&_Coupler.inc" )
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Fleet\\Std_Late_Steam_Era_Diesel_Locomotive_Coupler.inc)
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Fleet\\Std_Late_Steam_Era_Diesel_Switcher_Coupler.inc" )
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Fleet\\Westinghouse_24RL_Brakestand.inc" )
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Fleet\\Westinghouse_24RL_Brakestand_w_Dynamics.inc" )


For locomotives, Include.Inc\Models:
Spoiler


For Locomotives, files left in the .eng folder:
Spoiler



As you can see, the common.inc\fleet list is what you'd expect to be the same for most locomotives.

The common.inc\fleet list is much more extensive for locomotives than for freight or passenger cars, largely because the .eng file is more complete. Most of the entries are for payware and ALL of the entries are specific to the physical model and NOT for the railroad that owned them.

The last group, files left in the .eng folder are mostly files that will be specific to one railroad and that one railroad has all of the .eng files in one folder.

I do hope this helps people understand what's going on here and see the need for standards.

#52 User is offline   Genma Saotome 

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 12:02 PM

Another shift.

Previously the folder names under models were some sort of concatenation of the modeler's name and the model name. In hindsight it's clear this was a dumb idea... people (or payware groups) who make model;s tend to make all sorts of models and so I think the better way to deal with this is to add another branch in the directory tree and then simplify the name of the final folder.

For example:
This:
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Models\\USRA_DS_Boxcar_Tim_Muir_Model\\XM_USRA_DS_Fixed_Specs.inc" )

Becomes:
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Models\\Tim_Muir\\USRA_DS_Boxcar\\XM_USRA_DS_Fixed_Specs.inc" )

or even:
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Models\\Tim_Muir\\USRA_DS_Boxcar\\Fixed_Specs.inc" )


Both ways of expressing this change result in shorter paths and really highlight where the model came from, which is important to many payware vendors.

For example:
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Models\\3dtrains\\F3_V3\\F3A_Fixed_Specs.inc" )

Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Models\\3dtrains\\F7_V3\\F7A_Fixed_Specs.inc" )


I think this is a positive change that will be appreciated by payware vendors and individual modelers alike.

#53 User is offline   Genma Saotome 

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 08:56 AM

The latest... Here is a typical .wag file using the Include() statement:

SIMISA@@@@@@@@@@JINX0D0t______

Wagon ( XM_MILW_703425_Leather
WagonShape ( MILW_USRA_703425.s )
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Models\\Tim_Muir\\USRA_SS_Boxcar\\XM_USRA_SS_Fixed_Specs.inc" )
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Models\\Tim_Muir\\USRA_SS_Boxcar\\XM_USRA_SS_Leather.inc" )
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Fleet\\Std_Type_E_Coupler_Generic_Draft_Gear.inc" )
Include ( "..\\Common.Inc\\Fleet\\Single_Pipe_AB_Brakes.inc" )
Sound ( "genfreightwag1.sms" )
Name ( "XM 40' MILW <USRA SS> 703425 Leather" )

)

The only difference between this car and and empty of the same model is presence of the one line that is shown in bold.

To provide a variety of ladings I've created a bunch of "lading" .inc files, each adjusted for the unique weight of the contents. I use a spreadsheet to produce ALL the lines within such .inc files... it takes about 20-30 seconds per file. For this model I have these "lading" files available:

XM_USRA_SS_Box_Materials_LD.inc
XM_USRA_SS_Burlap_Bags_LD.inc
XM_USRA_SS_Canned_Food_LD.inc
XM_USRA_SS_China_Fixtures_LD.inc
XM_USRA_SS_Fixed_Specs.inc
XM_USRA_SS_Flooring_LD.inc
XM_USRA_SS_Glass_LD.inc
XM_USRA_SS_Guns_LD.inc
XM_USRA_SS_Hides_LD.inc
XM_USRA_SS_Insecticide_LD.inc
XM_USRA_SS_Leather_LD.inc
XM_USRA_SS_Lumber_LD.inc
XM_USRA_SS_Machine_Parts_LD.inc
XM_USRA_SS_Office_machines_LD.inc
XM_USRA_SS_Paper_Roofing_LD.inc
XM_USRA_SS_Pipe_fitings_LD.inc
XM_USRA_SS_Railroad_Car_Parts_LD.inc
XM_USRA_SS_Scrap_Paper_LD.inc
XM_USRA_SS_Tanning_Material_LD.inc
XM_USRA_SS_Tires_LD.inc
XM_USRA_SS_Woodwork_LD.inc


Each one looks like this:
Comment ( XM_USRA_SS_Leather_LD.inc )

comment ( "The value of any weight in this file is correct ONLY for these cars" )

comment ( "Estimated capacity (CAPY) of 100,000lb or 50t-us" )
comment ( "Calculated Load limit (Ld Lmt) of 113,700lb or 56.85t-us" )
comment ( "Empty car weight (Lt Wt) is 47,300lb or 23.65t-us" )

comment ( "Part 2A and 2B are parameters based on presence or absence of a load. " )
comment ( "Parameters for an empty car belong in a Fixed_Specs.inc" file." )
comment ( "Parameters for a loaded car belong in a {Lading Name}_Loads.inc file." )

comment "Part 2A - parameters based on presence or absence of a load.
Mass ( 39.6768 s-t )
CentreOfGravity (1.9m)
DerailRailForce ( 89.9869t )
DerailBufferForce ( 356.8958kn )
ORTSDavis_A ( 169.3897 lbf )
ORTSDavis_B ( 1.8481 lbf/mph )
ORTSDavis_C ( 0.0706 lbf/mph^2 )
ORTSBearingType ( Friction )


comment ( "Part 2B - Unsupported parameters based on presence or absence of a load." )
LadingName ( "Leather" )
LadingWeight ( 13.6078 s-t )





IMO the one line holding the lading information really belongs somewhere else... probably as part of the consist file. Doing so would reduce the number of .wags to just one -- the empty car. Maintaining your .wags would become sooooo much easier w/ one 12 line .wag per mesh file.

#54 User is offline   ErickC 

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Posted 28 May 2018 - 01:51 PM

Well, unless you had separate sounds for loaded and empty cars - which do sound different. Then you'd be specifying a different SMS already. :D

#55 User is offline   Genma Saotome 

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 12:19 PM

I never thought about different sounds based on loaded or empty but if there were sound files for both then I'd move the reference for the sound file from the .wag into the .inc files. The sound for the empty car would go into ...fixed_specs.inc and the one for the loaded car into each of the specific lading files.

Having duplicate parameters is not problem as the OR code simply retains the last one it sees. When there is an Include() fora lading file all parameters whose value has changed because of the lading weight are present; reading the lading file after reading the fixed_specs.inc file means OR keeps the values for the loaded car and tosses out the previous values which were all for an empty car.
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