[engmod]

I am playing with the include file to try and get the AC machines to get more tractive effort in rain and snow.

Tractive effort over a DC is approximately 700/500 = 1.4 times tractive effort. ( using sd70ace ( 700 ) and sd75m ( 503 ))

I have changed the weight on drivers but that is not doing anything,
I will try changing the mass next.

[engmod]

changing mass does nothing either.

[ATW]

So what your looking forward to is for AC motors to go their max TE without the need of sanding in Snow/Rain?

ORTS does need a automatic sanding parameter implemented an AC motors do out here have slight slippages.

[ErickC]

I have to say, I don't quite understand why I was inititally so opposed to modular physics files. I managed to get my GP7 ENG files down to 54 lines each:

SIMISA@@@@@@@@@@JINX0D0t______

Wagon ( SOO_GP7_375
	Type ( Engine )
	WagonShape ( SOO_GP7_375.s )
	Size ( 120in 174in 663in )
	Mass ( 246000lb )
	WheelRadius ( 20in )
	NumWheels (	4 )
	AntiSlip ( 1 )
    Sound (	"X_567BC-0.sms" )

	ORTS3DCab(
            ORTS3DCabFile ( SOO_GP7_375_VC.s )
            ORTS3DCabHeadPos ( 47.244in 137.273in 140.462in )
            RotationLimit ( 360 360 360 )
            StartDirection ( 0 0 0 )
	)

	Include( "../NAVS_COMMON/INCLUDE/AAR_Type-E.inc" )
	Include( "../NAVS_COMMON/INCLUDE/NAVS_GP7_wag_gen.inc" )
	Include( "SOO_375_lights.inc" )
	)

Engine ( SOO_GP7_375
   	Name ("Soo GP7 #375 c. 1980")
	Wagon ( SOO_GP7_375 )	
   	Sound (	"645BC-0.sms" )
    DieselEngineMaxRPMChangeRate( 65 )
	
	Effects (
		DieselSpecialEffects (
				Exhaust1 (
					0.000 4.618 -0.880
					0 1 0
					0.1
				)
				Exhaust2 (
					0.000 4.618 -3.153
					0 1 0
					0.1
				)
			)
        )

	Include( "../NAVS_COMMON/INCLUDE/NAVS_16-567B.inc" )
	Include( "../NAVS_COMMON/INCLUDE/NAVS_GP7_62_15.inc" )
	Include( "../NAVS_COMMON/INCLUDE/NAVS_EMD_PM_compressor.inc" )
	Include( "../NAVS_COMMON/INCLUDE/NAVS_26L.inc" )
	Include( "../NAVS_COMMON/INCLUDE/NAVS_vigilance.inc" )
	Include( "../NAVS_COMMON/INCLUDE/NAVS_GP7_NDB_controllers.inc" )
	Include( "../NAVS_COMMON/INCLUDE/procedures_ndb.inc" )
	Include( "../NAVS_COMMON/INCLUDE/NAVS_GP7_description.inc" )
	)

At the risk of sounding a little too proud, that's one tidy ENG file. I even went so far as to move the lights to a separate file and treat it as an extension. I'll leave the light definitions in the same folder as the locomotives and only use multiple files when necessary. I've set the file up so that I can modify the more common parameters I might want to change, exhaust locations, operating weight, sounds, engine max change rate, et c. I'm probably going to move the size and other unchanging parameters at the top to the GP7 general include file as well.

[Genma Saotome]

> At the risk of sounding a little too proud, that's one tidy ENG file.

Yup. You will make revisons later on when you do other models, mostly on account of learning what is going to be used by many, many .wags and .engs (such as coupler data), what is going to be used by reskins of this model where the reskins properly exist in their own folder in \trainsets (e.g., different road names), and what is going to be used only by a handful of .wags or .engs in one folder. It took me a month or so to stumble thru the various trial solutions before I settled down on using \common.fleet, \common.model, and keeping the .inc files in the same folder as the .wags or .engs

Some feedback on your work, above, if I may: I use an .inc file I label as <something from the model name>_Mesh_defined.inc. In it I'll put those parameters that are essentially defined by the guy who made the model.. Stuff like length(), numwheels(), gauge() and so one. You are not going to fiddle with those values ever so there is no need to keep them in your .eng file... and they're going to be identical for every reskin of that model... one more reason to slide it over into an .inc file. You probably can do the same for the 3dcab parameters. I almost always leave the Shape() parameter in the main file, mostly because I've already gone and edited the .s file and some texture names (from the generic Loco.ace to SP3541.ace) so I can move all of the various skinnings from many folders to one (IOW the final folder might be named "RS_SFRD_Rr-40", a class name, and hold 6-8 uniquely named .wags, whereas before there were 6-8 uniquely named folders, each holding one .wag. This change reduces drawcalls because now all the shared textures are in one folder).

I agree with your thinking about exhaust, name, and sound as those things are frequently unique to one .wag or one .eng, so leave them in the main file where you can easily get to them.

[ErickC]

I am going to move more of the general parameters over to the general include file later on this week (before I start the next few units), similar to your "mesh defined" technique, but the cabs will actually all be specific to each unit. Some visible details will differ, as will the in-cab road numbers, and I'll probably change the weathering for each cab (honestly, just a simple matter of playing with masks). The cab textures actually fill up what would otherwise be unused space in the map! Each locomotive uses a single 2048 x 2048 pixel texture, but the exterior only requires half of it, so the two 1024 x 1024 pixel cab textures were moved in.

[Genma Saotome]

What are you trying to address in your path statement to the .inc files?

[ErickC]

What do you mean? All of my include files are in a subfolder of the same common folder where all of my sounds and other common required files are (just as I did when I was working with Great North Rails). I'm building everything on a common architecture that is specific to the content that I am presently developing.

[Genma Saotome]

ErickC, on 02 February 2018 - 07:33 PM, said:

What do you mean? All of my include files are in a subfolder of the same common folder where all of my sounds and other common required files are (just as I did when I was working with Great North Rails). I'm building everything on a common architecture that is specific to the content that I am presently developing.

I'm not familiar with any of your work and the path statement in the above examples did not provide any context... so I asked what you were trying to accomplish with that. That's all/

[ErickC]

Ah, that's what I sort of figured you meant. I've always used my own directory system because nothing I build is a la carte, that is, if I build a locomotive, I build the cab and sounds as well. It's just less confusing for me to keep my own things in their own little world. This is going to be particularly important now that I only build content for OR, because the sounds I am building won't work right with mixed-sim content (unless appropriate RPM curves are added), and my locomotives won't work properly with MSTS sounds (because they have correct RPM curves).

[Hamza97]

This is how my .eng file looks with modular physics include files, neat and tidy still its not complete but this system also helps in physics fine tuning process. Just change one file and all loco with that include changes as well... :sign_rockon:

SIMISA@@@@@@@@@@JINX0D0t______

Wagon ( BL_WCAM2P_21861
	Type ( Engine )
	WagonShape ( WCAM-2P_Gold_21861.s )

	include ( "../common.bgpro/Physics/WCAM2/BasicShape.inc" )
	include ( "../common.bgpro/Physics/Global/Coupler_Transition.inc" )
 	include ( "../common.bgpro/Physics/Global/Derail.inc" )
 	include ( "../common.bgpro/Physics/WCAM2/adhesion_friction.inc" )

	MaxBrakeForce ( 230kN )

	Inside (
		 PassengerCabinFile ( BL_WCAM2P.s )
		 PassengerCabinHeadPos ( -0.55 3.05 8.35 )
		 RotationLimit ( 45 90 90 )
		 StartDirection ( 0 0 0 )
	)

	include ( "../common.bgpro/Physics/Global/Standard_2P_Brakes.inc" )

	Sound ( "..\\..\\common.bgpro\\Sounds\\WCAM2\\WCAM_eng.sms" )

	include ( "../common.bgpro/Lights/WCAM2-2P.inc" )
	
	ORTSPantographs(
                         Pantograph( Delay( 5s )
                         )
                          Pantograph( Delay( 5s )
                         )
	)

Engine ( BL_WCAM2P_21861
    Wagon ( BL_WCAM2P_21861 )

    include ( "../common.bgpro/Physics/WCAM2/AC_4700HP.inc" )
    include ( "../common.bgpro/Physics/Global/Circuit_Breaker.inc" )

    include ( "../common.bgpro/Physics/Global/Standard_2P_AB.inc" )
    include ( "../common.bgpro/Physics/Global/Standard_2P_Controller.inc" )
    
    include ( "../common.bgpro/Physics/WCAM2/DB.inc" )
    include ( "../common.bgpro/Physics/WCAM2/VCD_OS.inc" )

    DoesBrakeCutPower( 0 )
    BrakeCutsPowerAtBrakeCylinderPressure( 15 )

    CabView ( CLW-Type-1.cvf )

    Sound ( wapcab.sms )

    Name ( "Valsad BL WCAM-2P 21861" )
    Description (
	"BGPro - BL WCAM-2P 21861 Balwant in sheds Orange-Blue livery"
    )
    
    include ( "../common.bgpro/Physics/Global/EOP_WCAM.inc" )
    include ( "../common.bgpro/Physics/Global/EC_Std_32_Notch_Electric.inc" )
    include ( "../common.bgpro/Physics/WCAM2/TE_curve.inc" )

)

The Global folders have .inc file which would apply globally to all locos. The WCAM2 holds file specific to WCAM-2P locos I am creating currently.

[Genma Saotome]

Four comments:

• Many users will be confused by the use of both unix and windows styles of slashes. Pick one and stick with it.
  
• Interesting idea combining the global and model specific directories into one tree.
  
• "BasicShape" seems to be what I've called "MeshDefined". If that's the case you could move Type(), InsideView and Pantographs() as the odds are good none of those values will vary from one locomotive to another and all are descriptive of what the model maker put into the mesh. FWIW "basicShape" is a good name.
  
• It is not obvious to me why you have separated \Lights as a subdirectory. Discussion below.

If you look at all of the various .inc files that would usually be created they all describe equipment of one kind or another. If you break out \Lights, why not \Brakes and \Couplers as well? Or \Alert Equipment? What I'm getting at is a difficult to answer matter of how much division to put into a directory tree and the logic used to come up with your answer. Stopping with a directory that means "equipment" is one answer. Going into more detail should argue for fleshing out all the relevant specializations, so if you do \physics then one answer is to add the equivalent of everything else, which might be \Equipment and that should include the lights. If you really want to do \Lights then why not all the other kinds of equipment too? IMO that's too much specialization for no obvious gain.

[R H Steele]

Genma Saotome, on 19 March 2018 - 10:07 AM, said:

Many users will be confused by the use of both unix and windows styles of slashes. Pick one and stick with it.

Regarding Dave's observation, I refer you to this ET thread: Jovets post#6
http://www.elvastowe...542#entry220542


It is reasonably the least prone to error, and your Sound path string already uses it. I agree, adopt a standard.
Keep the format consistent, IMO, is an important advantage as it makes changes to all the files much easier. ( paraphrasing your own words)

[Genma Saotome]

I also recommend the use of the MS style. AFAIK it has the advantage that other utilities will know exactly what it means. For example my editor, EmEditor, will open the referenced .inc file when the MS backslash is used but will not open the file with a unix forward slash. This one feature has really helped me in that I know if I can open the file in my editor the path is correct. I don't need to be looking for error messages in the OR or TSRE Con editors to find out I goofed something.

[Hamza97]

Quote

If you look at all of the various .inc files that would usually be created they all describe equipment of one kind or another. If you break out \Lights, why not \Brakes and \Couplers as well? Or \Alert Equipment? What I'm getting at is a difficult to answer matter of how much division to put into a directory tree and the logic used to come up with your answer. Stopping with a directory that means "equipment" is one answer. Going into more detail should argue for fleshing out all the relevant specializations, so if you do \physics then one answer is to add the equivalent of everything else, which might be \Equipment and that should include the lights. If you really want to do \Lights then why not all the other kinds of equipment too? IMO that's too much specialization for no obvious gain.

The main reason to break out the light section is that this loco I have broken up in shed wise in trainset folder, for e.g. "BL WCAM-2P" & "KYN WCAM-2P", and as the physical loco shape is same only, I have broken the lights into its subfolder. Also many other loco are also arranged this way, so that if I were to modify them to with help of .inc file, it would help me to copy the existing lights.inc file, change the positions and point to it, every loco in different subfolders.

The logic behind Global and loco specific folder is such that couplers, brakes, controllers are mostly uniform across the loco fleet, atleast here on Indian Railways, so it makes sense to arrange them in such a way. And making different subfolders for different things like couplers, brakes, controllers would be IMHO too much specialization,as you said, for no obvious reason.