Elvas Tower: A suggestion for additional sound triggers for OR - Elvas Tower

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A suggestion for additional sound triggers for OR

#1 User is offline   railguy 

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 10:50 AM

I recently purchased the new SLI NS Heritage SD70ACe locomotives. They have a pretty nice sound package, but I don't believe that it is accurate, and this because of an MSTS limitation that OR has "inherited." Please allow me to explain the prototype, then my suggested partial workaround. The 2-cycle 710 prime mover found in EMD products starting, I believe, with the "60" Series (SD-60, GP-60) were/are equipped with a feature that will take the prime mover to "low idle" under correct conditions. "Correct" indicates here coolant temperature, accessory loads, etc. being within acceptable parameters. If one of the monitored functions goes "out of range," then the computer will kick the prime mover RPM up to high idle (equivalent RPM to about Run 2 throttle setting) until the function(s) is/are back in range, then the prime mover will drop back to low idle. An example of this is coolant temperature--if the coolant is at too high a temperature on a hot day or after the engine has been worked hard, the computer will keep the prime mover at high idle until the coolant temperature cools back within range. Conversely in cold outside temperatures, the computer will place the prime mover at high idle if the coolant cools below its desired range. I also believe, that at least on certain models or conditions, moving the reverser off of center will kick the prime mover into high idle.

Which brings me to sound triggers. If a sound trigger were available keyed on when the reverser was moved from "neutral" to forward or reverse, and one when the reverser was moved to neutral, those could be used to trigger the prime mover sounds to go to high idle when the reverser was moved into "power," with the throttle setting triggers in the .sms file taking over after that. Conversely, the sounds of the prime mover would not move back to low idle until the reverser was centered.

The other and likely better long-term solution in OR is to tie prime mover sounds strictly to prime mover RPM and allow other things in addition to throttle settings dictate prime mover RPM. A classic case is an HEP locomotive, where the prime mover RPM is held at a partial or full throttle RPM setting, regardless of throttle position. I have emulated this in my HEP locomotives by adjusting the RPM and horsepower settings in the .eng file, but this dictates that the locomotive is basically "hard coded" as an HEP locomotive. Ideally, it would be nice, as is the case with prototype locomotives, to be able to take them in or out of HEP mode, with the program adjusting the prime mover RPM and horsepower settings accordingly.

In the case of "regular" locomotives, even outside temperature, for example, could influence coolant temperature (which I believe is already somewhat in the works), and coolant temperature could then influence prime mover RPM as it does in the prototype. The other thing that could be possible with all of this is the sim being able to emulate Automatic Engine Start Stop (AESS), where the prime mover, under the correct conditions can shut itself off (and restart). I have mentioned this one before, at it would be a cool feature. Any of this, however, would require some recoding of .sms files, as they simply are not set up to emulate this stuff.

Any thoughts out there?

#2 User is offline   Csantucci 

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 11:07 AM

Triggers indicating switch from neutral to forward/reverse have been implemented in OR. They are explained in the manual.

#3 User is offline   railguy 

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 11:15 AM

Wow, I missed that. even though I read the manual often. Where I'm hung up, though, is the Variable2 setting is still tied to throttle position, not prime mover RPM--maybe there needs to be a new "variable" for prime mover RPM to tie sound files to??

#4 User is offline   istvanek 

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 02:19 PM

View Postrailguy, on 13 November 2017 - 11:15 AM, said:

Wow, I missed that. even though I read the manual often. Where I'm hung up, though, is the Variable2 setting is still tied to throttle position, not prime mover RPM--maybe there needs to be a new "variable" for prime mover RPM to tie sound files to??

I can confirm that Variable2 is tied to engine rpm and not to throttle position (which is Variable1). You may be fouled because in default eng file setup (MSTS limitation) prime mover revolutions were (and are in OR) equal to ((maxRPM minus idleRPM)*throttle%)+idleRPM - where idle and max are constants, so rpm value follows throttle position changes. Try OR advanced diesel engine setup where you can set prototypical rpm value to every throttle position.

#5 User is offline   railguy 

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 03:55 PM

The challenge to do what I would like to do is how to initiate an RPM change in the prime mover without using the throttle--i.e., raising the RPM (not the horsepower to the wheels) by moving the reverser from neutral to forward or reverse position and, conversely dropping the RPM from high idle to low idle when the reverser is centered. If that were possible, then it would be pretty straightforward to use Variable 2 to have the sound files follow the RPM change. However, as I understand your explanation, if Variable 2 in the .sms file is RPM controlled, it can't affect the sound files unless the actual RPM changes, which, so far as I can see, can only be done by moving the throttle lever. So, it's sort of a "chicken and egg" problem. The OR triggers appear only to affect the .sms system and do not affect the actual RPM of the prime mover. It seems, as it now stands, that only the throttle lever can affect that, just as it was in MSTS.

#6 User is offline   ErickC 

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 11:23 PM

View Postistvanek, on 13 November 2017 - 02:19 PM, said:

I can confirm that Variable2 is tied to engine rpm and not to throttle position (which is Variable1). You may be fouled because in default eng file setup (MSTS limitation) prime mover revolutions were (and are in OR) equal to ((maxRPM minus idleRPM)*throttle%)+idleRPM - where idle and max are constants, so rpm value follows throttle position changes. Try OR advanced diesel engine setup where you can set prototypical rpm value to every throttle position.

It's actually tied to what might be best thought of as generator output percent, not engine RPM, thus the source of the problem. If it were indeed tied to engine RPM, if I specified that an engine idled at 275 RPM, and had a maximum speed of 835 RPM, then idle RPM should be 32.9 percent, and the frequency curve of a clip that should play at unity pitch at idle and 303.6 percent at maximum RPM (the pitch of an engine is directly correlated to the ratios of engine speeds) would look something like this:

				FrequencyCurve(
					Variable2Controlled
					CurvePoints ( 3
						0.000		00000
						0.329		44100
						1.000		133904
						)
					Granularity ( .001 )
				)


(There's no excuse to use 11KHz sample rates anymore, so people need to stop doing it)


Instead, because variable2 is total (i.e. generator) output percent, the curve looks like this:

				FrequencyCurve(
					Variable2Controlled
					CurvePoints ( 2
						0.00		44100
						1.00		133903.6524
						)
					Granularity ( .001 )
				)



A straight RPM parameter could be very useful. Perhaps it could look like this:

				FrequencyCurve(
					Engine1RPMControlled
					CurvePoints ( 3
						000		00000
						275		44100
						835		133904
						)
					Granularity ( .001 )
				)


If we could specify which engine's parameters are being used, then we could finally have properly lagging turbos by setting a powerless second engines with greater lag parameters and using that engine to control turbocharger sounds. Because the straight RPM variable would allow for curve points below idle and above maximum, it could be used for the sounds of the engine starting up or shutting down (since we can do that now) and for transient surges above maximum power (which is precisely what happens on a roots-blown EMD in real life and can be emulated with very high ChangeUpRPMpS parameters in concert with very high RateOfChangeUpRPMpSS parameters).

#7 User is offline   Coolhand101 

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 07:15 AM

View PostErickC, on 13 November 2017 - 11:23 PM, said:

(There's no excuse to use 11KHz sample rates anymore, so people need to stop doing it)


I'm very guilty of this. I made so many sound files at 11kHz in the past, that i keep on forgetting to go higher for OR!

Thanks

#8 User is offline   ErickC 

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 11:40 AM

View PostCoolhand101, on 14 November 2017 - 07:15 AM, said:

I'm very guilty of this. I made so many sound files at 11kHz in the past, that i keep on forgetting to go higher for OR!

Thanks

Oh, I understand. The amount of rework I have yet to do is enormous - including redoing my replacement default wagon sounds.

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