[Genma Saotome]

Goku, I think you might find this screenshot from Mosaic to be interesting. The information window on the left is a mix of tile and (selected) patch information (click once on image to expand to full size).
 Mosaic Patch screen.jpg (372.96K)
Number of downloads: 39
With the exception of shearing, a feature I do not use, I find everything here to be useful as I work.

When multiple patches have been selected many of the fields are blanked out.

Food for thought.

[Genma Saotome]

Here's one more example you might find of interest.

Mosaic allows us to apply tertex art to Distant Mountain (DM) tiles. It also allows us to copy the bit map textures it displays, including from a large area. This image is the selection and bitmap copy of all of the patches on one tile -- the ordinary tile view (click on any image to enlarge to full size):
 DM_Copy.jpg (221.48K)
Number of downloads: 7

What I do next is paste that data into my graphics editor (a 16k x 16k array of pixels. I resample that down to 512 and set the result tot he side. I then repeat the exercise three more times on ajacent tiles. When I am done I set up a 1024x1024 image file and cut/paste the four resample images I had created, positioning them the same arraingement as seen in the route. This 1kx1k image is then saved as a .bmp file which is used to create a new .ace texture file.

Back in Mosaic I can load that .ace file and with it apply a tertex to the DM tile that covers the same geographic area as the ordinary tiles I was working with before. This is looking at the DM tile view.
 DM_Result.jpg (98.55K)
Number of downloads: 10

This took me just a couple of minutes to do.

The result in Open Rails is when the camera is located far enough away from this location to display the DM tile it will have the same appearance to the end user as-if he were viewing near terrain. This is pretty important in those situations where the normal view range is quite large, such as mostly flat locations. For mountains it might not be worth the work because the near terrain, being high, may well block most or all of what is in the DM tile.

Anyway, I'm including this example to show a feature / work process that perhaps you had not considered before. I do think TSRE has to paint textures on DM tiles. Going further to address the method I outlined here would be a big plus; one could do it all in a 64bit graphics editor but it would take at lot longer.

[Goku]

1. Filename will be visible in next version.
2. 3. visible now in TSRE.
4. Delta? It's something to do with different tile size? TSRE uses only 1x1 so no need for display it.
5. Water -> visible in water window.
6. 7. 8. -> using these values is obsolete in TSRE. TSRE uses 32bit float values for terrain height, not 16bit like MSTS , so these values have no purpose. On save, TSRE calculates best new values for best .raw file resolution.
9. Will be available in shader editor window.
10. 11. 12. Visible in TSRE. Maybe water level is not always good visible?
13. Texture Matrix -> you really have use of it?
14. Will be available in shader editor window. Eventually I can add short information about used shader like texture names in main terrain window too.

[Genma Saotome]

Goku, on 26 October 2017 - 01:58 PM, said:

1. Filename will be visible in next version.
2. 3. visible now in TSRE.
4. Delta? It's something to do with different tile size? TSRE uses only 1x1 so no need for display it.
5. Water -> visible in water window.
6. 7. 8. -> using these values is obsolete in TSRE. TSRE uses 32bit float values for terrain height, not 16bit like MSTS , so these values have no purpose. On save, TSRE calculates best new values for best .raw file resolution.
9. Will be available in shader editor window.
10. 11. 12. Visible in TSRE. Maybe water level is not always good visible?
13. Texture Matrix -> you really have use of it?
14. Will be available in shader editor window. Eventually I can add short information about used shader like texture names in main terrain window too.

1. Filename? Good. I do use both .w and .t file names, depending on the issue am am working on. I also use the rotation value.
4. Delta? I don't know what that is.
5. Water? It expands and displays the four elevation values.
6. 7. 8.? Fine by me tho it might cause problems if anyone also uses an older tool.
9. Will be available in shader editor window. You'll need to explain what you are trying to do as the statement does not conform to my understanding of what a shader can do.
10. 11. 12. Visible in TSRE. Maybe water level is not always good visible? I don't understand the question well enough to answer.
13. Texture Matrix? I use Scale X and Y and while I have always set identical values I would not say I would never use different values. I have not used shear or texture UV. Other route builders have their own experiences and so my inclination is to say since it is possible it might be best to allow for it in TSRE.


On the whole, WRT tertex tasks, TSRE is moving in the right direction. There are lots of detail issues and features that are not yet present. If you can eventually fill those gaps it will be a strong toolset.

P.S. somebody else mentioned the need to apply a mask over the art before painting. I have not considered that myself but I am always using masks in my graphics program. If you can add masks, esp. if you can optional feather the boundary, well, that would be really, really nice. Ditto for being able to change the feather range in the boundary of the paint tool. Not essential but if present it would be a very welcome feature to occasionally use.

[Goku]

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my understanding of what a shader can do

Terrain Shader is material in .T file that describes appearance of patch. Many patchs can share one material.
Mosaic doesn't tell much about it .. it is "Texture Section".
In TSRE code it is named "Material".
In MSTS code and OR it is named "Terrain Shader" (I didn't knew that there is file with official msts code names available when I made TSRE).

You can uncompress .T file using RR? to see what is inside.

[Genma Saotome]

Hmmm. That's different. I have been operating with this definition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shader which is rather different. What you described is, to my way of thinking, some mix of ordinary data and metadata. No matter, now that I understand how you use the word it will make sense to me when you do.

By the way, if you wish me to edit a tile with as many Mosaic features as possible and then send you the file, I can do that. Just ask.



p.s. I cannot get RR to run cleanly anymore. Dunno what the problem is but suspect it has something to do w/ Java and TSUtils. Will check the uncompress feature to see if that still works.

[Csantucci]

Genma Saotome, on 26 October 2017 - 03:24 PM, said:

p.s. I cannot get RR to run cleanly anymore. Dunno what the problem is but suspect it has something to do w/ Java and TSUtils. Will check the uncompress feature to see if that still works.

Everytime Java is updated on your computer, you must copy the "Classes" folder (which contains the files used by TSUtils) from the old Java installation (if you don't have deleted it) to the new one.

[Goku]

Quote

Back in Mosaic I can load that .ace file and with it apply a tertex to the DM tile that covers the same geographic area as the ordinary tiles I was working with before. This is looking at the DM tile view.

And it works in MSTS? I think it's not possible to make overlapping tiles in RGE?

[Genma Saotome]

DM tiles have different names. They're not accessible in KUJU's RE, only DEMEX and Mosaic. AFAIK you can do anything to a DM tile that you can do an ordinary tile... except place objects, setup water, and/or draw. Each DM tile has an 8x8 array of patches. Each patch is equal in size and position to a 2x2 array of ordinary tiles.

As for their creation, yeah, it's done in RGE and the terrain is projected in DEMEX.

Also, I had forgetton but everything you can to do with tertex art and a patch is possible in KUJU's RE by first selecting a patch and the doing a right mouse click to bring up a context sensitive menu.

[Goku]

Genma Saotome, on 28 October 2017 - 04:00 PM, said:

As for their creation, yeah, it's done in RGE and the terrain is projected in DEMEX.

Can you show me how? I don't see a way to populate overlappig tiles.

Genma Saotome, on 28 October 2017 - 04:00 PM, said:

Also, I had forgetton but everything you can to do with tertex art and a patch is possible in KUJU's RE by first selecting a patch and the doing a right mouse click to bring up a context sensitive menu.

TSRE has everything that is there.

Quote

Sorry Goku, I did not see your response, no, there was no crash of the editor, I just closed without saving and came back, oddball terrtex still there.

You can send me the broken ace file. And then just paint new one.