[midneguy]

I hope someone might be able to give me some guidance... As I understand it, Open Rails has all of the lighting features incorporated into it that were available with MSTS BIN. By this I mean all of the available options or conditions, like Headlight, Unit, Penalty, Control, Service, etc.

The problem I'm having is with the Penalty conditions, where lights can be specified to be on or off depending on whether the brakes on the player locomotive are in emergency application or not. Now, since I don't typically find myself having to apply the brakes in emergency when I run the sim I haven't typically paid attention to these - but I want to specify an emergency light for a steam locomotive I'm working on. I haven't had any luck so far, and I've also confirmed that the emergency lights don't work on a few other diesels which do work in MSTS. The diesels I tried in OR are from the BLW Great Northern Empire Builder 1947 and 1951 passenger sets.

Can anyone confirm that the Penalty conditions do indeed work in OR, and if so, point me to some examples of locomotives where they do work so I can study and compare the differences in the lighting section? And can anyone confirm that the Penalty conditions are, or should be active for both diesels and steam locomotives? I would assume they would be... http://www.elvastower.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/read.gif

Thanks! :)

[Hobo]

I haven't run my old diesels - F 7 - for a while so I tried some of the ones that have the emergency lite in that I know always worked . They don't in OR , so I just discovered and I've never put them in Steamers - yet .
You are not alone . Not sure what I haven't done to convert to OR if it was deemed necessary . I also read the Manual and it says " All MSTS lights are supported "

[Hamza97]

They work, yep.. :thumbup3: I have tested them on my locos. Just one wish i have, that they should activate when we break a hose going around a curve, etc. as that is sort of penalty too...

EDIT : Here`s the penalty section of Lights section from one of my locos.

		Light	(
			comment( Emergency Flasher SHF )
			Type ( 0 )
			Conditions (
				Penalty ( 2 )
				Unit ( 2 )
				)
			Cycle	( 0 )
			FadeIn	( 0.2 )
			FadeOut	( 0.2 )
			States	( 2
				State	(
					Duration ( 1.0 )
					LightColour ( 80ff7200 )
					Position ( 0.53 3.8 8.31 )
					Azimuth ( 0 0 0 )
					Transition ( 0 )
					Radius ( 0.3 )
					Elevation ( 0.0 0.0 0.0 )
					)
				State	(
					Duration ( 0.5 )
					LightColour ( 000000 )
					Position ( 0.53 3.8 8.31 )
					Azimuth ( 0 0 0 )
					Transition ( 0 )
					Radius ( 0.01 )
					Elevation ( 0.0 0.0 0.0 )
					)
				)
			)

And heres the Vigilance monitor section

	VigilanceMonitor(
		MonitoringDeviceMonitorTimeLimit( 60s )
		MonitoringDeviceAlarmTimeLimit( 10s )
		MonitoringDevicePenaltyTimeLimit( 60s )
		MonitoringDeviceCriticalLevel( 0kmph )
		MonitoringDeviceResetLevel( 0kmph )
		MonitoringDeviceAppliesFullBrake( 0 )
		MonitoringDeviceAppliesEmergencyBrake( 1 )
		MonitoringDeviceAppliesCutsPower( 1 )
		MonitoringDeviceAppliesShutsDownEngine( 0 )
		MonitoringDeviceResetOnZeroSpeed( 1 )
		MonitoringDeviceResetOnResetButton( 1 )
		)

EDIT 2 : The above is for a diesel locos, but the parameters would be same for steam too...

[Csantucci]

I also just tested by modifying a D9 light. Yes, they work. However they must be dedicated lights.
If e.g. a light has following block

			Conditions	(
				Headlight ( 0 )
				Unit ( 2 )
				Penalty ( 2 )
				)

it works. Instead if it has following block

			Conditions	(
				Headlight ( 3 )
				Unit ( 2 )
				Penalty ( 2 )
				)

that is it may also be lit by the driver, it does not work. I dont know how it is im MSTS.

[midneguy]

I appreciate the replies, and I've done a little more testing and investigation this morning...

Regarding how the "Penalty" lights work in MSTS I ran a quick test and here is what I can report... For the example locomotive I'm looking at, here's the relative portions of the lighting section of the .eng file with a few notes added:

Lights ( 17 ***note - not all lights included in this code snippet***
		Light (
			Comment ( Sphere of light Dim - Headlight )
			Type ( 1 )
			Conditions (
				Headlight ( 2 )
				Unit ( 2 )
				Penalty ( 1 )
			)
			Cycle ( 0 )
			FadeIn ( 0.5 )
			FadeOut ( 0.5 )
			States ( 1
				State (
					Duration ( 0.0 )
					LightColour ( ffffffca )
					Position ( 0.0 3.5 18 )
					Transition ( 0 )
					Radius ( 100.0 )
					Angle ( 10.0 )
				)
			)
		)
		Light (
			Comment ( Sphere of Light Bright  - Headlight )
			Type ( 1 )
			Conditions (
				Headlight ( 3 )
				Unit ( 2 )
				Penalty ( 1 )
			)
			Cycle ( 0 )
			FadeIn ( 0.5 )
			FadeOut ( 0.75 )
			States ( 8
				State (
					Duration ( 0.25 )
					LightColour ( 80ffffca )
					Position ( -10.0 3.5 18.0 )
					Transition ( 1.0 )
					Radius ( 141.0 )
					Angle ( 25.0 )
				)
				.
				.
				.
				.
				State (
					Duration ( 0.25 )
					LightColour ( ccffffca )
					Position ( -5.0 3.5 22.0 )
					Transition ( 1.0 )
					Radius ( 139.0 )
					Angle ( 20.0 )
				)
			)
		)
		Light (
			Comment ( Sphere of Light Emergency )
			Type ( 1 )
			Conditions (
				Unit ( 2 )
				Penalty ( 2 )
			)
			Cycle ( 0 )
			FadeIn ( 0.5 )
			FadeOut ( 0.75 )
			States ( 8
				State (
					Duration ( 0.25 )
					LightColour ( 00ff0000 )
					Position ( -20.0 3.5 16.0 )
					Transition ( 1.0 )
					Radius ( 50.0 )
					Angle ( 25.0 )
				)
				.
				.
				.
				.
				State (
					Duration ( 0.25 )
					LightColour ( 00ff0000 )
					Position ( -10.0 3.5 21.0 )
					Transition ( 1.0 )
					Radius ( 50.0 )
					Angle ( 25.0 )
				)
			)
		)
		Light (
			Comment ( Head light 1 dim 0 - second lower headlight glow )
			Type ( 0 )
			Conditions (
				Headlight ( 2 )
				Unit ( 2 )
				Penalty ( 1 )
			)
			FadeIn ( 0.5 )
			FadeOut ( 0.5 )
			Cycle ( 0 )
			States ( 1
				State (
					Duration ( 0.0 )
					LightColour ( ffffffca )
					Position ( 0.1 2.41 10.52 )
					Azimuth ( 0.0 -5.0 5.0 )
					Transition ( 0 )
					Radius ( 0.2 )
				)
			)
		)
		Light (
			Comment ( Head light 2 dim - second lower headlight glow )
			Type ( 0 )
			Conditions (
				Headlight ( 2 )
				Unit ( 2 )
				Penalty ( 1 )
			)
			FadeIn ( 0.5 )
			FadeOut ( 0.5 )
			Cycle ( 0 )
			States ( 1
				State (
					Duration ( 0.0 )
					LightColour ( FFffffca )
					Position ( -0.1 2.41 10.52 )
					Azimuth ( 0.0 -5.0 5.0 )
					Transition ( 0 )
					Radius ( 0.2 )
				)
			)
		)
		Light (
			Comment ( Head light 1 bright - glow )
			Type ( 0 )
			Conditions (
				Headlight ( 3 )
				Unit ( 2 )
				Penalty ( 1 )
			)
			FadeIn ( 0.5 )
			FadeOut ( 0.5 )
			Cycle ( 0 )
			States ( 1
				State (
					Duration ( 0.0 )
					LightColour ( ffffffca )
					Position ( 0.1 2.41 10.52 )
					Azimuth ( 0.0 -5.0 5.0 )
					Transition ( 0 )
					Radius ( 0.3 )
				)
			)
		)
		Light (
			Comment ( Head light 2 bright - glow  )
			Type ( 0 )
			Conditions (
				Headlight ( 3 )
				Unit ( 2 )
				Penalty ( 1 )
			)
			FadeIn ( 0.5 )
			FadeOut ( 0.5 )
			Cycle ( 0 )
			States ( 1
				State (
					Duration ( 0.0 )
					LightColour ( FFffffca )
					Position ( -0.1 2.41 10.52 )
					Azimuth ( 0.0 -5.0 5.0 )
					Transition ( 0 )
					Radius ( 0.3 )
				)
			)
		)
		Light (
			Comment ( Oscillating light - non-emergency )
			Type ( 0 )
			Conditions (
				Headlight ( 3 )
				Unit ( 2 )
				Penalty ( 1 )
			)
			Cycle ( 0 )
			FadeIn ( 0.0 )
			FadeOut ( 0.0 )
			States ( 8
				State (
					Duration ( 0.25 )
					LightColour ( FFffffca )
					Position ( -0.12 3.22 10.4 )
					Azimuth ( 0.0 -5.0 5.0 )
					Transition ( 1.0 )
					Radius ( 0.256 )
				)
				.
				.
				.
				.	
				)
				State (
					Duration ( 0.25 )
					LightColour ( FFffffca )
					Position ( -0.06 3.18 10.4 )
					Azimuth ( 0.0 -5.0 5.0 )
					Transition ( 1.0 )
					Radius ( 0.416 )
				)
			)
		)
		Light (
			Comment ( Emergency light - emergency  )
			Type ( 0 )
			Conditions (
				Penalty ( 2 )
				Unit ( 2 )
			)
			Cycle ( 0 )
			FadeIn ( 0.0 )
			FadeOut ( 0.0 )
			States ( 8
				State (
					Duration ( 0.25 )
					LightColour ( FFff0000 )
					Position ( -0.12 3.22 10.4 )
					Azimuth ( 0.0 -5.0 5.0 )
					Transition ( 1.0 )
					Radius ( 0.256 )
				)
				.
				.
				.
				.
				State (
					Duration ( 0.25 )
					LightColour ( FFff0000 )
					Position ( -0.06 3.18 10.4 )
					Azimuth ( 0.0 -5.0 5.0 )
					Transition ( 1.0 )
					Radius ( 0.416 )
				)
			)
		)
		.
		.
		.
		Miscellaneous step lights and others
		.
		.
		.
)

Here's what I observed with these lights in MSTS... In the example above the "Penalty ( 1 )" condition definitely has an effect, including for lights that are switched by the player. These lights are all visible when the brakes are NOT in emergency setting. When the brakes are placed in emergency, these lights all switch off even with the headlights turned on in dim or bright modes since the Penalty ( 1 ) (bakes not in emergency) condition is no longer satisfied. Like Carlo mentioned, note that the emergency light with "Penalty ( 2 )" condition is not switched by the player, having no Headlight condition defined...

With this same locomotive in OR, the "Penalty ( 1 )" lights all stay on and visible as long as the headlight switch is at either the dim or bright position - they don't switch off when then brakes are placed in emergency. Likewise, the emergency light doesn't come on either. In case it makes a difference, here is the Emergency / Vigilance portion of the .eng file for this locomotive:

EmergencyStopMonitor (
		MonitoringDeviceMonitorTimeLimit ( 0 )
		MonitoringDeviceAlarmTimeLimit ( 0 )
		MonitoringDevicePenaltyTimeLimit ( 0 )
		MonitoringDeviceCriticalLevel ( 0 )
		MonitoringDeviceResetLevel ( 0 )
		MonitoringDeviceAppliesFullBrake ( 0 )
		MonitoringDeviceAppliesEmergencyBrake ( 1 )
		MonitoringDeviceAppliesCutsPower ( 0 )
		MonitoringDeviceAppliesShutsDownEngine ( 0 )
	)
	AWSMonitor (
		MonitoringDeviceMonitorTimeLimit ( -1 )
		MonitoringDeviceAlarmTimeLimit ( 5 )
		MonitoringDevicePenaltyTimeLimit ( 0 )
		MonitoringDeviceCriticalLevel ( 0 )
		MonitoringDeviceResetLevel ( 0 )
		MonitoringDeviceAppliesFullBrake ( 0 )
		MonitoringDeviceAppliesEmergencyBrake ( 1 )
		MonitoringDeviceAppliesCutsPower ( 0 )
		MonitoringDeviceAppliesShutsDownEngine ( 0 )
	)
	VigilanceMonitor (
		MonitoringDeviceMonitorTimeLimit ( 90 #1min. )
		MonitoringDeviceAlarmTimeLimit ( 70 )
		MonitoringDevicePenaltyTimeLimit ( 15 #15sec. )
		MonitoringDeviceCriticalLevel ( 0 )
		MonitoringDeviceResetLevel ( 0 )
		MonitoringDeviceAppliesFullBrake ( 1 )
		MonitoringDeviceAppliesEmergencyBrake ( 0 )
		MonitoringDeviceAppliesCutsPower ( 1 )
		MonitoringDeviceAppliesShutsDownEngine ( 0 )
	)

For emergency lights to work correctly is the emergency / vigilance data absolutely requried? Or should the emergency light be dependent only on the state of the brakes (brake controller in emergency setting true or false)?

Anyway, I'm still puzzled by what's going on and why the lights that are impacted by the Penalty parameter aren't working, either on this engine or the steam locomotive I'm attempting to set up... and certainly aren't working the same as they do in MSTS...

[Hobo]

I was testing the dash emergency indicator light , not external . The dash lite doesn't work either .

[midneguy]

As a follow up and for reference, here is the last version of the lighting section I'm attempting to use with the steam locomotive I'm trying to set up, which isn't working in OR similar to the diesel I described in my previous post:

Lights	
	(	7
		Light	
		(
			comment( Cone of light - main headlight, dim and bright headlight switch settings )
			Type ( 1 )
			Conditions (
				Headlight ( 4 )
				Unit ( 2 )
				Control ( 2 )
                        )
			Cycle	( 0 )
			FadeIn	( 0.5 )
			FadeOut	( 0.5 )
			States ( 1
				State
				(
					Duration ( 0.0 )
					LightColour ( fff0e2b7 )
					Position ( 0 3.224 7.665 )
					Transition ( 0 )
					Radius ( 1000.0 )
					Angle ( 10.0 )
				)
			)
		)
		Light	
		(	
			comment( Headlight - glow main headlight, dim and bright headlight switch settings )
			Type ( 0 )
			Conditions (
				Headlight ( 4 )
				Unit ( 2 )
				Control ( 2 )
                        )
			FadeIn	( 0.5 )
			FadeOut	( 0.5 )
			Cycle	( 0 )
			States ( 1
				State	
				(
					Duration ( 0.0 )
					LightColour ( fff0e296 )
					Position ( 0 3.224 7.665 )
					Azimuth ( 0 0 0 )
					Transition ( 0 )
					Radius ( 0.6 )
				)
			)
		)
		Light	
		(
			comment( Cone of light AI - main headlight )
			Type ( 1 )
			Conditions (
				Headlight ( 0 )
				Unit ( 2 )
				Control ( 1 )
                        )
			Cycle	( 0 )
			FadeIn	( 0.5 )
			FadeOut	( 0.5 )
			States ( 1
				State
				(
					Duration ( 0.0 )
					LightColour ( fff0e2b7 )
					Position ( 0 3.224 7.665 )
					Transition ( 0 )
					Radius ( 1000.0 )
					Angle ( 10.0 )
				)
			)
		)
		Light	
		(	
			comment( Headlight AI - glow main headlight )
			Type ( 0 )
			Conditions (
				Headlight ( 0 )
				Unit ( 2 )
				Control ( 1 )
                        )
			FadeIn	( 0.5 )
			FadeOut	( 0.5 )
			Cycle	( 0 )
			States ( 1
				State	
				(
					Duration ( 0.0 )
					LightColour ( fff0e296 )
					Position ( 0 3.224 7.665 )
					Azimuth ( 0 0 0 )
					Transition ( 0 )
					Radius ( 0.6 )
				)
			)
		)
		Light (
			Comment ( Oscillating light - only on in bright headlight switch setting )
			Comment ( On when brakes not in emergency setting, off in emergency setting )
			Type ( 0 )
			Conditions (
				Headlight ( 3 )
				Unit ( 2 )
				Penalty ( 1 )
				Control ( 2 )
                        )
			Cycle ( 0 )
			FadeIn ( 0.0 )
			FadeOut ( 0.0 )
			States ( 8
				State (
					Duration ( 0.2 )
					LightColour ( FFffffca )
					Position ( 0 3.928 7.568 )
					Azimuth ( 0.0 0.0 0.0 )
					Transition ( 1.0 )
					Radius ( 0.256 )
				)
				.
				.
				.
				.
				State (
					Duration ( 0.2 )
					LightColour ( FFffffca )
					Position ( 0.01 3.908 7.568 )
					Azimuth ( 0.0 0.0 0.0 )
					Transition ( 1.0 )
					Radius ( 0.256 )
				)
			)
		)
		Light (
			Comment ( Oscillating light AI )
			Type ( 0 )
			Conditions (
				Headlight ( 0 )
				Unit ( 2 )
				Control ( 1 )
                        )
			Cycle ( 0 )
			FadeIn ( 0.0 )
			FadeOut ( 0.0 )
			States ( 8
				State (
					Duration ( 0.2 )
					LightColour ( FFffffca )
					Position ( 0 3.928 7.568 )
					Azimuth ( 0.0 0.0 0.0 )
					Transition ( 1.0 )
					Radius ( 0.256 )
				)
				.
				.
				.
				.
				State (
					Duration ( 0.2 )
					LightColour ( FFffffca )
					Position ( 0.01 3.908 7.568 )
					Azimuth ( 0.0 0.0 0.0 )
					Transition ( 1.0 )
					Radius ( 0.256 )
				)
			)
		)
		Light (
			Comment ( Oscillating light Emergency )
			Comment ( Off when brakes not in emergency setting, on in emergency setting )
			Type ( 0 )
			Conditions (
				Headlight ( 0 )
				Unit ( 2 )
				Penalty ( 2 )
                        )
			Cycle ( 0 )
			FadeIn ( 0.0 )
			FadeOut ( 0.0 )
			States ( 8
				State (
					Duration ( 0.2 )
					LightColour ( FFff0000 )
					Position ( 0 3.707 7.568 )
					Azimuth ( 0.0 0.0 0.0 )
					Transition ( 1.0 )
					Radius ( 0.256 )
				)
				.
				.
				.
				.
				State (
					Duration ( 0.2 )
					LightColour ( FFff0000 )
					Position ( 0.01 3.687 7.568 )
					Azimuth ( 0.0 0.0 0.0 )
					Transition ( 1.0 )
					Radius ( 0.256 )
				)
			)
		)
	)

[Csantucci]

I've tested also the Penalty ( 1 ) case by modifying three D9 lights this way

		Light	(
			comment( Head light dim )
			Type		( 0 )
			Conditions	(
				Headlight ( 2 )
				Unit ( 2 )
				Penalty ( 1 )
				)
			FadeIn	( 0.5 )
			FadeOut	( 0.5 )
			Cycle	( 0 )
			States	(	1
				State	(
					Duration ( 0.0 )
					LightColour ( 80ffffff )
					Position ( 0.15 3.20 9.679 )
					Azimuth ( 0.0 -5.0 5.0 )
					Transition ( 0 )
					Radius ( 1.0 )
					)
				)
			)
		Light	(
			comment( Head light bright )
			Type		( 0 )
			Conditions	(
				Headlight ( 3 )
				Unit ( 2 )
				Penalty ( 1 )
				)
			FadeIn	( 0.5 )
			FadeOut	( 0.5 )
			Cycle	( 0 )
			States	(	1
				State	(
					Duration ( 0.0 )
					LightColour ( ffffffff )
					Position ( 0.15 3.20 9.679 )
					Azimuth ( 0.0 -5.0 5.0 )
					Transition ( 0 )
					Radius ( 1.0 )
					)
				)
			)
		Light	(
			comment( Head light bright )
			Type		( 0 )
			Conditions	(
				Headlight ( 3 )
				Unit ( 2 )
				Penalty ( 1 )
				)
			FadeIn	( 0.5 )
			FadeOut	( 0.5 )
			Cycle		( 0 )
			States	(	1
				State	(
					Duration ( 0.0 )
					LightColour ( ffffffff )
					Position ( 0.15 3.20 9.679 )
					Azimuth ( 0.0 -5.0 5.0 )
					Transition ( 0 )
					Radius ( 1.0 )
					)
				)
			)

and they work as they should. I light them on, then I run the train into an emergency braking, and the lights go off.
So to me at least for diesels everything works well.

[Hobo]

Carlo - Do you have an indicator light on the dash that works with the outside lights ?

[espee]

I can get the dash light to illuminate on an emergency application. All headlights go out and the UDE comes on - flashing as my preference
Cancelling the emergency application turns the UDE light off and all headlights come back on.

The cvf file has this entry, if it helps:

		MultiStateDisplay (
			Type ( PENALTY_APP MULTI_STATE_DISPLAY )
			Position ( 238 183 21 21 )
			Graphic ( "..\\..\\Common.Cab\\Generic Eng Cabs\\RS11 Rebuilt\\Cabview\\RS11 emergency.ace" )
			States ( 2 2 1
				State (
					Style ( 0 )
					SwitchVal ( 0 )
				)
				State (
					Style ( 0 )
					SwitchVal ( 1 )
				)
			)
		)

My external light is a separate Southern Pacific UDE (UnDeclared Emergency - apparently...) light, so is not used as a different light.

Although they were used as a tail light on rear end helper(s), probably after the use of marker lights were discontinued; so I guess the engineer could override their use as an emergency brake indicator...

My lighting code is:

		Light (
			Comment( 9 light_UDE_F )
			Type ( 0 )
			Conditions (
				Headlight ( 0 )
				Unit ( 0 )
				Penalty ( 2 )
				)
			Cycle ( 0 )
			FadeIn ( 0.5 )
			FadeOut ( 0.5 )
			States ( 2
				State (
					Duration ( 0.5 )
					LightColour ( 80FF0000 )
					Position ( 0 4.355 5.327 )
					Transition ( 1 )
					Radius ( 1.0 )
				)
				State (
					Duration ( 0.5 )
					LightColour ( 00000000 )
					Position ( 0 4.355 5.327 )
					Transition ( 1 )
					Radius ( 1.0 )
				)
			)
		)