Elvas Tower: Steam effects for diesel locomotives and passenger cars - Elvas Tower

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Steam effects for diesel locomotives and passenger cars Additional parameter Rate Topic: -----

#51 User is offline   thegrindre 

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 11:17 PM

View PostTraindude, on 10 August 2017 - 09:12 PM, said:

Sorry to bump this thread but here's another effect worth simulating that's along the lines of this topic: Smoke from a caboose or brake van.

Virtually all cabooses (brake vans in the UK) had wood or coal-fired stoves to keep the conductor/guard warm on a cold winter night. Adding the functionality of a stove-smoke emitter for rolling stock allows the effect to be added without making the caboose an "engine." Similarly, 19th-century passenger cars made before steam heat was introduced could also have the stove emitter function.


BOY! I'm all for this idea. http://www.elvastower.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/good.gif Would love to see this implemented. http://www.elvastower.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/sign_rockon.gif

http://www.elvastower.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/oldstry.gif

#52 User is offline   jared2982 

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 04:21 AM

One other idea would be steam emitted from the dynamo on steam engines. Electricity for those headlights has to com from somewhere.

#53 User is offline   steamer_ctn 

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 01:14 PM

View Postjared2982, on 11 August 2017 - 04:21 AM, said:

One other idea would be steam emitted from the dynamo on steam engines. Electricity for those headlights has to com from somewhere.

This is already catered for. See the manual, or this site.

#54 User is offline   jared2982 

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 06:43 PM

View Poststeamer_ctn, on 11 August 2017 - 01:14 PM, said:

This is already catered for. See the manual, or this site.


Ah, so it is. Thank you I must have missed this at some point.

#55 User is offline   Mike B 

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 05:39 PM

View PostSP 0-6-0, on 30 June 2017 - 10:44 AM, said:

Peter, I will get back to you on the HEP generator information. I've got to look through my documents and gather up the info.

HEP Head End Power is of a couple different setups, In the early years this would have been oversized steam driven turbo generators equipped to steam locomotives in commuter service. Ex, CNW pacifics used on the Chicago area commuter lines. The DC Voltage was used for the car lighting systems since the cars sat still for 20 out of every 24 hours. Also the frequent stops did not allow for adquate battery charging. When diesels came along the DC came from the main generator or from a smaller auxilliary generator.

The modern HEP setup is 3 phase AC either generated from the main diesel engine that also turns the traction generator or from a seperate HEP package installed in the locomotive or in a converted passenger or freight car.

The first pioneer in HEP AC generated from the main engine was the Erie Lackawanna ordered GE U34CH. Amtrak ordered it's F40PH after seeing the success of the U34CH which was used in New Jersey commuter service.

On the U34CH this setup needed the main engine to turn at 960RPM to maintain the 60 Hertz AC frequency for the 3Phase AC power. The engine was fed fuel and the main traction alternator would be excited to the nessecary degree but the engine RPM would stay constant. My link

The EMD F40PH worked on a similar bases. These setups worked well but are very hard on the main diesel engine.

Nowadays most locomotives either have a seperate HEP unit or a inverter setup so the main engine can run in a normal fashion and not wide open to maintain line frequency.

Robert

Many F59s (not -PHI) work like F40s for HEP, and they are hard on the ears too. Personal experience, both inside (an end-to-end tour when riding a test train on Caltrain in the 1980s) and out (Metrolink LA as a rider especially at Union Station during the lead-up to commute time when all the tracks fill with waiting trains). F59PHI for Cal Amtrak and others usually has a separate generator for HEP, which is much quieter.

#56 User is offline   Traindude 

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 06:48 PM

Another smoke effect I thought of--smoke from ventilators above the dining-car kitchen. This includes not only exhaust from stoves or ovens that burn wood or coal, but also smoke from cooking food that passes through overhead stove vents.

The possibilities are endless.

#57 User is offline   jkcooney 

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 06:13 AM

View PostMike B, on 29 January 2017 - 02:14 PM, said:

Pretty much everything other than electric and diesel MUs in the US and Canada had steam heat until the 1970s, so diesel and electric passenger locomotives needed steam generators (a small, packaged boiler with automatic controls) for train heating. HEP started appearing on some commuter trains in the 1960s, then VIA did it for their whole fleet, then Amtrak did when they started replacing the Heritage cars. Heritage cars were eventually rebuilt with HEP for Amtrak, as they were for Via, which eliminated the need for steam generators on the locomotives. So for passenger trains well into the 1970s or even early 1980s, with Heritage-type cars, a steam-heat effect would be realistic.

Trains were pre-heated in terminals from a boiler in the station before the locomotive coupled up and connected its steam heat line. So steam heat effects (small plumes) at key points around the platforms (typically near the bumper post for stub-end terminals) would also be appropriate.

Effects would include steam leakage from hose joints, valves, and other release points. One interesting use was for cooling (air conditioning) that could be done with a steam ejector. Effects would be outside-temperature sensitive (can we do that in OR?) with stronger effects when cold and practically vanishing in warm weather, but not particularly throttle-sensitive.

Perhaps adding all these details would consume too much memory especially if the train were fairly lengthy.

#58 User is offline   jkcooney 

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 06:15 AM

View PostTraindude, on 13 August 2017 - 06:48 PM, said:

Another smoke effect I thought of--smoke from ventilators above the dining-car kitchen. This includes not only exhaust from stoves or ovens that burn wood or coal, but also smoke from cooking food that passes through overhead stove vents.

The possibilities are endless.

The possibilities may be endless but at some point it would seem to me to be pointless. Is the objective to view artifacts and minor details or operate the trains in a realistic way. I guess it depends pretty much on what you want to achieve in this "hobby".... it is (after all) a labor of love.
jc

#59 User is online   ebnertra000 

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 09:03 AM

I do think it would be a bit much if you can hardly see it in any case, but if the prototype looked like a rolling cloud, this definitely would help. I just thought of an effect that this would do well to simulate: the steaming ore effect seen on iron ore trains in Northern Minnesota (See image). I see these regularly during hunting season when it gets cold, especially third weekwnd when it's invariably -10°

#60 User is offline   cjakeman 

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 10:04 AM

View Postjkcooney, on 16 August 2017 - 06:15 AM, said:

The possibilities may be endless but at some point it would seem to me to be pointless.

Yes, but if we can provide a general mechanism for smoke/steam exhausting from vehicles, then it's up to the modeller what to focus on. As ebnertra000 shows, there are possibilities we haven't thought of !

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