Elvas Tower: Steam effects for diesel locomotives and passenger cars - Elvas Tower

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Steam effects for diesel locomotives and passenger cars Additional parameter

#11 User is offline   NF1-800 

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 08:55 AM

For my personal taste, i+iii

#12 User is offline   longiron 

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 09:21 AM

My vote is for visual effects only as the start. For steam locomotives, steam heat had zero impact on performance as steam losses were so small compared to cylinder usage.

#13 User is offline   steamer_ctn 

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 08:20 PM

View PostSP 0-6-0, on 05 February 2017 - 09:09 PM, said:

In my link you can see that as boiler pressure raises the steam boiler blows off on the diesels and vents steam out the top of the steam gen area.

As this is a 40min video, are you able to indicate what times the blow offs occur.

View PostSP 0-6-0, on 05 February 2017 - 09:09 PM, said:

I would like to see a limited set of functions to provide for steam heat on diesel and pure electrics.

As a full working model of the boiler is probably not worth the effort, what features would you like to see implemented (based upon above list of categories)?

View PostSP 0-6-0, on 05 February 2017 - 09:09 PM, said:

I might be able to find a couple of documents from the manufactures of the North American and British steam heat boilers if that would be of some value in figuring out how they work?

That would be good if you could send me some to look at.

View PostNF1-800, on 06 February 2017 - 08:55 AM, said:

For my personal taste, i+iii

Are you able to be more specific? (Again within the same categories).

View Postlongiron, on 06 February 2017 - 09:21 AM, said:

My vote is for visual effects only as the start. For steam locomotives, steam heat had zero impact on performance as steam losses were so small compared to cylinder usage.

Can you indicate the type of visuals that you would want to see?

Thanks

#14 User is offline   longiron 

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 05:54 AM

View Poststeamer_ctn, on 06 February 2017 - 08:20 PM, said:

Can you indicate the type of visuals that you would want to see?
Thanks

I'm thinking very simple. Being able to define a SteamExhaust FX within a wagon. Emitter would be defined the same as Whistle or CylinderCocks are presently done. Only difference would be there is no trigger, it's always on.

chrisv





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Posted 07 February 2017 - 08:43 AM

Hello, a bit tired from work.
Sure i can explain what i tried to say.
For the visual side of the steam effect, it's about seeing steam leaks, of course the size of the leak depending on a specific value entered ( example between 0.0 - 1.0 ).
I am not sure about the pressure of the leakage, probably from a scale from 0.0 to 1.0, beats me.
And about the operational way, i am meaning to an ON/OFF key combination to start/stop this effect. I believe it is not needed to create a visual ON/OFF button to do that, either for the locomotive or steam generation car.

#16 User is offline   copperpen 

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 11:33 AM

We already have an operational on/off steam heat for steam locomotives. Extend that to diesel/electric locomotives ( no need to add water/fuel usage if it makes things easier to code.) and then tie the carriage/wagon steam animation to that key. Each car in the train to have an effects section where the leak is defined as to position, direction and size.

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 01:18 PM

I will go through my other HDD and retrieve my steam heat generator info.

I would like to just see a basic set of visual steam heat effects for diesel and electrics so equipped. Physics are affected some as these units usually are heavier as they carry extra water and fuel in tanks for the steam generator to use.

As the water gets low it has to be refilled at certain distances from major city stations. The fuel is usually piped from the main diesel tank. Electrics having their own oil fuel for steam boilers just as a seperate steam heater cars.


I will post back about the points in the video and other stuff. I thought the video would be a good watch for studying the various leaks from the cars and the steam wisps from the loco with steam boiler.

Robert

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 01:35 PM

View PostSP 0-6-0, on 07 February 2017 - 01:18 PM, said:

I will go through my other HDD and retrieve my steam heat generator info.

Thanks for that.

Are the steam generators fitted to the locomotive or in separate trailing cars?

How much diesel fuel did they use per hour? Was this drained from a separate tank or from the locomotive fuel tank?

How much steam did they produce per hour? How much water did they carry?

It would be nice if we could build a table of options to try and determine which ones are worth modeling.

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 04:18 PM

The steam generator that was fitted into our diesel locomotives was this type: VAPOR OK-4616
It was fitted in the small bonnet of this diesel-hydraulic locomotive (040-DHC)
Link for the locomotive I am talking about
http://transport-in-...6-DepPl-001.jpg
Generic information about diesel engine: 1250 HP
From what i heard from other railway enthusiasts, she can handle around 5-6 passenger cars for optimum steam heating.
http://transport-in-comun.ro/trenuri/ldh/seria80/80-0201-6-DepPl-001.jpg

You can notice the heating pipe exiting the small bonnet and go along the chassis at both ends.

And some pictures I took this night from my book for this aggregate

https://s24.postimg.org/tdt8z0sld/VAPOR_OK_4616_A_DHC1.jpg

https://s24.postimg.org/ifhzgu401/VAPOR_OK_4616_A_DHC2.jpg

https://s24.postimg.org/wm2s96l6p/VAPOR_OK_4616_C1.jpg

https://s24.postimg.org/etc646xmp/VAPOR_OK_4616_C2.jpg


I translated the characteristics of this generator.
Debitul de abur – Steam debit
Debitul caloric – Caloric debit
Presiunea de functionare – Operating pressure
Suprafata de incalzire – Heating surface
Capacitatea de apa a serpentinelor – Serpentines water capacity
Variatia automata a debitului de abur – Automatic variation of steam debit
Randamentul termic – Termic efficiency
Presiunea de reglare a supapelor de siguranta – Pressure adjustment for safety valves
Alimentarea cu apa – Water supply - Cu pompa cu pistoane – Piston pump
Presiunea maxima de refulare ( pentru presiunea maxima a cazanului ) – Maximum pressure for repression ( for maximum pressure of the boiler )
Apa de alimentare – Water type - Dedurizata si degazata in instalatii special – Softened and degassed in special installations
Turatia pompei de apa – Water pump RPM
Combustibilul folosit – Fuel used - Motorina – Diesel
Aprinderea – Ignition - Cu arc electric continuu – Continous electric arc
Consumul de combustibil – Fuel consumption
Alimentarea cu combustibil – Fuel supply - Cu pompa cu roti dintate – Cogged wheel pump
Presiunea combustibilului – Fuel pressure
Tipul arzatorului – Burner type - Cu motorina pulverizata cu aer – With air pulverized diesel
Presiunea aerului de injectie – Air injector pressure
Alimentarea cu aer pentru combustie si ventilatie – Air supply for combustion and ventilation - Cu suflanta – With blower
Debitul de aer necesar arderii si ventilatiei – Required air debit for burning and ventilation
Turatia suflantei – Blower RPM
Actionarea pompei de apa, a pompei de combustibil si a suflantei – Operation of water pump, fuel pump and blower - Cu moto-convertizor – With moto-converter
Puterea mot. electric – Power of electric motor
Turatia – RPM (for electric motor)
Tensiunea de alimentare – Power supply
Protectia la temperatura maxima a aburului – Protection at maximum steam temperature
Protectia la temperatura maxima si minima a gazelor de ardere – Protection at maximum and minimum temperature for burning gases
Protectia la intarzierea aprinderii focului – Protection for delayed ignition for the fire
Protectia la temperatura maxima a apei de alimentare – Protection at maximum temperature for water supply


Other information about Vapor OK-4616
Water reservoir capacity – 3000 litres which is placed in the same compartment with the steam generator.
A complete cycle at a maximum steam production rate (till it runs out of water) is around 3.5 h.
It also has multiple purposes beyond heating trains, such as warming up the diesel engine before starting it up and keeping the locomotive in warm condition in long winter periods in case the locomotive sits too long.

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 05:30 PM

Ok, I found my resources. I hope something is of use?

Fuel oil on the diesels came from the main locomotive fuel tank. Heater cars and electrics had seperate fuel tanks just for the steam generator unit.

Fired on diesel and controlled by electricity. These steamers were in universal use from the 1930's to the 1970's. They required alot of maintenance and are known for being very tempermental.

The US & Canadian railroads used the Vapor Clarkson model. The British had 3 different models of steam generators of their own design. The operating pressures were also different between countries.

Water capacity and weight depended on the locomotive type as they were all different. The EMD FP7 would not hold the same amount of water as the bigger FP45 would have for example.

Locomotive steam generators

Wiki Article

British Steam Generators

Experiences of those who operated the vapor clarksons

Vapor operator manual

Vaporcarheating

Some anecdotes by W.A. Gardner, then of EMD

Pullman Heating

The two attachments below are the manuals for the British Stone Vapor and SwirlyFlo models of steam generators. They came from the web but I can't find the original source.

Steam Air Conditioning

Pullman Steam AC Controller

ATSF Steam AC

Steam AC Diagram

Video times.

Steam generators can blow off just as good as a steam locomotive. 34:20 Mark.

2:00 Steam hiss from second locomotive steam generator.

3:02 end of train steam leaks.

6:20 steam gen train line hiss.

16:45 steam generator car venting some steam. Low pressure release of steam.

24:00 Steam gen car inside quick look.

32:48 Lots of steam leaking.

33:43 Steam leaks

Robert

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