Elvas Tower: Steam effects for diesel locomotives and passenger cars - Elvas Tower

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Steam effects for diesel locomotives and passenger cars Additional parameter

#1 User is offline   NF1-800 

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 03:14 PM

Hello!
If I missed something about this detail in the manual or on forum, please correct me so.
I remembered the good ol’ days when steam heating was used till electric heating took over.
When talking about steam heating effects, I do not refer strictly to steam locomotives. In the days there were diesel locomotives that had a steam boiler incorporated in order to generate steam for heating the cars and another version when a diesel locomotive did not have such aggregate, there was a steam generation car coupled in order to do the job.
I am aware of that fact that such ideas were created to use in MSTS by adding such effect between couplers but is there a way to avoid this by adding such parameter for the diesel engines and passenger cars?
I remember I tested this long ago in OR (the effect between couplers) but the higher the throttle notch, the bigger the steam effect was.

Cheers!

#2 User is offline   Traindude 

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 08:39 PM

Funny you should mention that--

On the Trello board in the Unsorted column there is a thread for Steam generators on diesels, so that's a step in the right direction...

#3 User is offline   keystoneaholic 

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 12:50 PM

Don't forget that electric locomotives also had steam generators. Certainly the GG1 did, I assume that the other PRR passenger electrics would have had. It is likely that the Milwaukee units would have had them too.

I can't say for sure, but I suspect that the British EM2 class locos used for passenger trains on the Manchester to Sheffield electrification would have had a steam heat system, possibly some of the EM1 freight units were also fitted as they were used for passenger trains after the EM2's were sold to the Netherlands.

#4 User is offline   Mike B 

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 02:14 PM

Pretty much everything other than electric and diesel MUs in the US and Canada had steam heat until the 1970s, so diesel and electric passenger locomotives needed steam generators (a small, packaged boiler with automatic controls) for train heating. HEP started appearing on some commuter trains in the 1960s, then VIA did it for their whole fleet, then Amtrak did when they started replacing the Heritage cars. Heritage cars were eventually rebuilt with HEP for Amtrak, as they were for Via, which eliminated the need for steam generators on the locomotives. So for passenger trains well into the 1970s or even early 1980s, with Heritage-type cars, a steam-heat effect would be realistic.

Trains were pre-heated in terminals from a boiler in the station before the locomotive coupled up and connected its steam heat line. So steam heat effects (small plumes) at key points around the platforms (typically near the bumper post for stub-end terminals) would also be appropriate.

Effects would include steam leakage from hose joints, valves, and other release points. One interesting use was for cooling (air conditioning) that could be done with a steam ejector. Effects would be outside-temperature sensitive (can we do that in OR?) with stronger effects when cold and practically vanishing in warm weather, but not particularly throttle-sensitive.

#5 User is offline   Traindude 

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 06:44 PM

Let's also not forget that some railroads opted to use steam generator cars so that a locomotive that was not equipped with a steam generator could haul a steam-heated passenger consist (or the railroad did not want to burden the locomotive and/or fireman with this taxing chore!). The same goes for modern HEP, with generator cars usually leading the consist (the RB&B&B circus train, which was hauled by freight locomotives owned the host railroad, falls into this category)

Anyway, what I'm getting at is that Steam/HEP generators can add a new rolling-stock compatibility parameter similar to brake and coupling systems. If a consist of steam-heat equipped passenger cars is not coupled to either a steam generator-equipped locomotive or a steam generator car, then the cars will not have steam heat. (Steam was needed for heating wash water, too)

#6 User is offline   Hobo 

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 07:03 PM

Do you want steam leakage at all passenger cars and their connections or settle for leaks at the generator car itself ? I've always used steam generators ( basically early style HEP ) on my early CN passenger diesels - F7 series without problems but not with leakage far from that unit . They still work in OR with a few changes .

#7 User is offline   Mike B 

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 09:48 AM

View PostHobo, on 29 January 2017 - 07:03 PM, said:

Do you want steam leakage at all passenger cars and their connections or settle for leaks at the generator car itself ? I've always used steam generators ( basically early style HEP ) on my early CN passenger diesels - F7 series without problems but not with leakage far from that unit . They still work in OR with a few changes .

If possible, I would make that depend on temperature (should we ever get that detailed with modeling environments). Below freezing, pretty much all the connections leak a little. At higher temps, you would only notice leaks from, probably, the end of the train and possibly around the steam generator (where line temp and pressure are highest). Unless of course somebody wants to code a .wag as a big leaker to keep your boiler firing hard (or a dynamiter to make train braking interesting...).

The point above about HEP cars ... I've also seen them in the middle of a train, though that might have been temporary due to some recent switching (an obs. car was facing one end of the HEP car) blocking the train for splitting onto separate tracks in Old Sacramento. Commonly used on UP's executive train, which is usually pulled (these days) by freight units.

#8 User is offline   SP 0-6-0 

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 06:34 PM

Final days of steam heat on Via Rail Canada. My link

Robert

#9 User is offline   steamer_ctn 

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Posted 05 February 2017 - 03:28 PM

I am interested in getting a sense of the value/effort of adding some of the effects being discussed. Coding some of these features may not provide a huge value to the player compared to the effort to code them.

If we can classify each of the possible features into one of the following three categories, this may help us:
i) Visual - visible display features only, eg steam leaks
ii) Performance - features which impact the performance of the train, eg load variation
iii) Operational - features which require the player to operate something, turn on/off, turn up/down

HEP and The Steam Generator are two separate functions, each with a number of different features which can be classified with the above categories.

The coding of a full HEP or steam generator may not be worth the effort, however implementing a selected set of features of each might be easy enough to code and worth the effort.

For example, it may be easy enough to simulate water and fuel usage to vary the wagon physics, rather thentrying to code the full generator function. Implementing operating features may actually be a distraction to the player.

Based upon the discussion so far, how would each of the features rate?

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Posted 05 February 2017 - 09:09 PM

In my link you can see that as boiler pressure raises the steam boiler blows off on the diesels and vents steam out the top of the steam gen area.

I would like to see a limited set of functions to provide for steam heat on diesel and pure electrics.

I might be able to find a couple of documents from the manufactures of the North American and British steam heat boilers if that would be of some value in figuring out how they work?

Robert

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