[cr-stagg]

steamer_ctn, on 02 May 2016 - 02:18 PM, said:

Do you mean something like http://www.coalstone...arameter-brake/
............

Like that YES. BUT on www.openrails.org and for ALL engine parameters specific to ORTS not just Brake parameters.

A table like that is MUCH better than scattered out in the ORTS Manual. If in the Manual, it could be in an Annex in table form, even if repeating what is in the body of the Manual.

[ATW]

I like that idea too. But before I release my next beta template out along with new additions like typical or company specific Dash8's SD60's GP60s's etc what are the things requested besides capital Include lines... comment explanation reference lines explaining OR Parameters or no?

[Lindsayts]

May I point out that in OR Documentation is something anyone can (and should) be apart of if one thinks the manual could be improved, like for instance a table of eng parameters, then PLEASE have a crack at it, a couple of thoughts on the subject......

An entry could look something like this................

Parameter, typical usage, reference page fro description in main section of manual

Group the parameters in sections as normally used in an eng file, my aim for this idea is to make it easy to use includes.
As our host and myself are the only ones to have done much work on this it may pay to talk to both of us.
As I have said previously "includes" are a major way of simplifying eng files, so it is worth pursuing.

Buy the way, has anyone writen a section on includes to put in the manual?

Lindsay

[DirtyRam]

Good day, This is what I've been working on. Finally test ran a consist with this as the leader. Much to my delight it ran really well with minimal errors. Needs fine tuning and is a big WIP. All my power load ingame and are ConBuilder friendly with no errors. I started this before I read Dave's hard work, and it helped turn a few key lights on for me. I like the way Dave has set up the prototypical structure and will eventually change mine. I did it this way to be close to msts structure for now. Thought it would make it easier for people to transition over. There is still a ways to go until we can get a solid, set way of doing things for OR.

SIMISA@@@@@@@@@@JINX0D0t______

Wagon ( UP_DDA40X_6905
Type ( Engine )
WagonShape ( UP_DDA40X_6905.s )
FreightAnim ( UP_DDA40X_6905_FA.s 1 1 1 )
Size ( 3.2m 4.52m 29.79m )
Mass ( 247.4t )

Include ( "..\\ORPower\\FrtLoco\\MeshLoco\\MeshUPDDA40XSLI.inc" )
Include ( "..\\ORPower\\FrtLoco\\Couplers\\CouplerRoadLarge.inc" )
Include ( "..\\ORPower\\FrtLoco\\WeightLoco\\WeightUPDDA40X.inc" )
Include ( "..\\ORPower\\FrtLoco\\BrakesLoco\\BrakesEngineMaxProCompLarge.inc" )
Include ( "..\\ORPower\\FrtLoco\\LightsLoco\\LightsUPDDA40XSLI.inc" )
Include ( "..\\ORPower\\FrtLoco\\Sound\\SoundUPDDA40XEngRS5T.inc" )
)

Engine ( UP_DDA40X_6905
Wagon ( UP_DDA40X_6905 )
Type ( Diesel )
MaxPower ( 6600hp )

Include ( "..\\ORPower\\FrtLoco\\CabsLoco\\CabDDA40X.inc" )
Include ( "..\\ORPower\\FrtLoco\\SandingTime.inc" )
Include ( "..\\ORPower\\FrtLoco\\PrimeMovers\\EngineUPDDA40X.inc" )
Include ( "..\\ORPower\\FrtLoco\\PrimeMovers\\EngineUPDDA40X2.inc" )
Include ( "..\\ORPower\\FrtLoco\\AirCompressors\\AirCompressorUPDDA40X.inc" )
Include ( "..\\ORPower\\FrtLoco\\EngineTrainBrakes.inc" )
Include ( "..\\ORPower\\FrtLoco\\BrakesLoco\\BrakesDynUPDDA40X.inc" )
Include ( "..\\ORPower\\FrtLoco\\AntiSlipThrottlePowerDown.inc" )
Include ( "..\\ORPower\\FrtLoco\\ExhaustLoco\\ExhaustUPDDA40XSLI.inc" )
Include ( "..\\ORPower\\FrtLoco\\ExhaustLoco\\ExhaustUPDDA40X2SLI.inc" )
Include ( "..\\ORPower\\FrtLoco\\EngineMonitors.inc" )
Include ( "..\\ORPower\\FrtLoco\\ControllersLoco\\BrakeCompContEMD645Frt90psi.inc" )
Include ( "..\\ORPower\\FrtLoco\\Fuel\\FuelLevel5300.inc" )
Include ( "..\\ORPower\\FrtLoco\\Sound\\SoundUPDDA40XCabRS5T.inc" )

Name ( "SLI UP DDA40X 6905 OR" )
Description (
"Model: DDA40X \n\n"+
"Horsepower: 6600 hp \n\n"+
"Max.Speed: 90 mph \n\n"+
"Built: 1969-1971" )
)

SIMISA@@@@@@@@@@JINX0D0t______

Wagon ( UP37664_l
Type ( Freight )
Name ( "UP 37664 4 Bay Coal LD" )
WagonShape ( UP37664_l.s )
Size ( 2.90m 4.05m 15.92m )
Mass ( 120t )
comment ( For cars equipped uncushioned slack pro couplers )
Coupling (
Type ( Automatic )
Spring (
Stiffness ( 0 5e6N/m )
Damping ( 5e6N/m/s 5e6N/m/s )
Break ( 5.1e7N 5.1e7N )
r0 ( 5cm 8cm )
)
Velocity ( 0.2m/s )
)

Include ( "..\\ORStock\\Hopper\\Mesh\\MeshUP4BayCoalESLW.inc" )
Include ( "..\\ORStock\\Hopper\\Weight\\Weight4BayCoal120t.inc" )
Include ( "..\\ORStock\\Frt\\BrakesComp\\BrakesMaxProComp120t.inc" )

Sound ( "GenFreightWag1.sms" )
)

I'm not absolutely sure about eng files yet as this is the first run. Like, am I getting full horsepower etc.

We are on a road to change for the better,

Mike

[cr-stagg]

DirtyRam, on 18 June 2017 - 07:36 PM, said:

Good day, This is what I've been working on. Finally test ran a consist with this as the leader. Much to my delight it ran really well with minimal errors. Needs fine tuning and is a big WIP. All my power load ingame and are ConBuilder friendly with no errors. I started this before I read Dave's hard work, and it helped turn a few key lights on for me. I like the way Dave has set up the prototypical structure and will eventually change mine. I did it this way to be close to msts structure for now. Thought it would make it easier for people to transition over. There is still a ways to go until we can get a solid, set way of doing things for OR.
.......
Mike

Mike,
You state that your ENG file for "SLI UP DDA40X 6905 OR" is "ConBuilder friendly". Just which version of ConBuilder are you referring to? The current version or one of the old freeware versions.

I created an ENG file from your post above and got these two errors when I opened the current version :

Cannot locate the line "Maxforce (" in the file UP_DDA40X_6905.eng
Folder A:\CB-ENG_Test\TRAINS\TRAINSET\New folder

Cannot locate the line "Maxvelocity (" in the file UP_DDA40X_6905.eng
Folder A:\CB-ENG_Test\TRAINS\TRAINSET\New folder

Why does the current ConBuilder version look for these lines in ENG files?
Well the values in those lines are used in the calculation of values in the MaxVelocity line in Consist files. The old freeware version just made an entry of "MaxVelocity ( 40.0000 1.00000 )" but also had a tool for the user to change the values manually.
After making ConBuilder a Payware product one of the improvements we made was to add the code to calculate values for the Consist MaxVelocity line.

Without those values in the ENG file your proposed format is not only "UNFRIENDLY" to ConBuilder it is also unfriendly to Convoi, the Route Rite CE, YardMaster and according to my testing TSRE5.

Also whenever you create a consist using "SLI UP DDA40X 6905 OR" as the lead engine ConBuilder will issue a false Warning that the Consist is non-drivable because ConBuilder cannot find the CabView line.

Testing your ENG with Convoi I found it would not load the engine as it could not find the parameter Wagon/coupling/type.

[DirtyRam]

Hi Charles, I have the current version. I mean that I can still use the program without errors by leaving a few lines in the Eng file. The coupler section for instance had to be in so CB would load. Then I believe you did a mod to program and now instead of error it just shows question marks. The stock still needs coupler section in the Wag file.

The Include files are needed, I have 2 engine .incs

Comment ( "EngineUPDDA40X.inc" )

Type ( Diesel )
MaxPower ( 3300hp )
MaxForce ( 578.0kN )
MaxContinuousForce ( 364.8kN )
MaxVelocity ( 90mph )
MaxCurrent ( 750A )
comment( air gauge graph: 40-120psi)
WheelRadius ( 20in )
Sanding ( 30mph )
NumWheels ( 8 )
MaxTemperature ( 120 )
MaxOilPressure ( 90 )
DieselEngineIdleRPM ( 310 )
DieselEngineMaxRPM ( 915 )
DieselEngineSpeedOfMaxTractiveEffort ( 15.5mph )
DieselEngineMaxRPMChangeRate ( 25 )

Comment ( "EngineUPDDA40X2.inc" )

Type ( Diesel )
MaxPower ( 3300hp )
MaxCurrent ( 750A )
MaxTemperature ( 120 )
MaxOilPressure ( 90 )
DieselEngineIdleRPM ( 311 )
DieselEngineMaxRPM ( 915 )
DieselEngineMaxRPMChangeRate ( 26 )

I'm not yet sure if these even work as they should but it loads and runs.
I also have 2 exhaust files.
Its all set up just like the Common. folders.

Hope this helps,
Mike

[cr-stagg]

DirtyRam, on 20 June 2017 - 05:40 PM, said:

Hi Charles, I have the current version. I mean that I can still use the program without errors by leaving a few lines in the Eng file. The coupler section for instance had to be in so CB would load. Then I believe you did a mod to program and now instead of error it just shows question marks. The stock still needs coupler section in the Eng file

The Include files are needed, I have 2 engine .incs

......
Hope this helps,
Mike

Mike,

I assume by "Then I believe you did a mod to program and now instead of error it just shows question marks." you are referring to the Coupler type entries normally displayed as "(AA)" for both ends automatic or "(BB)" for Bar. There was no change to the ConBuilder code. If ConBuilder could not find the Coupler parameters it displays "(??)".

But that has nothing to do with the startup errors ConBuilder reports on the MaxForce and MaxVelocity parameters and why neither ConBuilder, Convoi nor RR-CE can correctly create CON files when those parameters are in Include file instead of in the ENG file.

Start up ConBuilder pointed to a Trainset containing your ENG and then click on the button with a "!" in a yellow circle on the top right of the ConBuilder window. That opens the startup Error report. Now look for errors on your ENG.

Create a consist with your ENG aand a bunch of wagons and save it. Now open File Explorer to your Consists folder and open the saved CON file, You will find a few lines from the top "MaxVelocity ( 0.00000 0 )"

[DirtyRam]

cr-stagg, on 20 June 2017 - 06:23 PM, said:

Mike,

I assume by "Then I believe you did a mod to program and now instead of error it just shows question marks." you are referring to the Coupler type entries normally displayed as "(AA)" for both ends automatic or "(BB)" for Bar. There was no change to the ConBuilder code. If ConBuilder could not find the Coupler parameters it displays "(??)".

But that has nothing to do with the startup errors ConBuilder reports on the MaxForce and MaxVelocity parameters and why neither ConBuilder, Convoi nor RR-CE can correctly create CON files when those parameters are in Include file instead of in the ENG file.

Start up ConBuilder pointed to a Trainset containing your ENG and then click on the button with a "!" in a yellow circle on the top right of the ConBuilder window. That opens the startup Error report. Now look for errors on your ENG.

Create a consist with your ENG aand a bunch of wagons and save it. Now open File Explorer to your Consists folder and open the saved CON file, You will find a few lines from the top "MaxVelocity ( 0.00000 0 )"

OK, I had just removed them from eng file, they need to go back under maxpower for any programs that need them. I have done and tested this already. I have no errors. I use CB every day and make my eng files loadable in CB. If they don't load I keep at it until they do. As far as the Includes go I check them ingame. I have had errors detected by CB in the pathing of some includes.
I have a few test consists already running.

SIMISA@@@@@@@@@@JINX0D0t______

Train (
TrainCfg ( "DR UP 6905 Test 2 Coal MT OR"
Name ( "DR UP 6905 Test 2 Coal MT OR" )
Serial ( 2 )
MaxVelocity ( 0.00000 0 )
NextWagonUID ( 202 )
Durability ( 1 )
Engine (
UiD ( 199 )
EngineData ( UP_DDA40X_6905 SLI_UP_FRC_ENGINES )
)
Engine (
UiD ( 201 )
EngineData ( UP_SD40_2_3364 SLI_UNION_PACIFIC )
)
Engine (
UiD ( 195 )
EngineData ( UP_SD40_3016 SLI_UP_FRC_ENGINES )
)
Engine (
Flip ( )
UiD ( 200 )
EngineData ( UP_DDA40X_6912 SLI_UP_FRC_ENGINES )
)
Wagon (
WagonData ( UP37664_e UPCOAL1 )
UiD ( 89 )
)
Wagon (
WagonData ( UP38490_e UPCOAL1 )
UiD ( 90 )
)

ETC

I'm still learning as I go and gaining more info,

Mike

[cr-stagg]

I highlighted the problem with not having MaxForce and MaxVelocity in the ENG file. This problem will occur for ConBuilder, Convoi and Route Rite's-CE.

DirtyRam, on 21 June 2017 - 09:26 AM, said:

OK, I had just removed them from eng file, they need to go back under maxpower for any programs that need them. I have done and tested this already. I have no errors. I use CB every day and make my eng files loadable in CB. If they don't load I keep at it until they do. As far as the Includes go I check them ingame. I have had errors detected by CB in the pathing of some includes.
I have a few test consists already running.

SIMISA@@@@@@@@@@JINX0D0t______

Train (
TrainCfg ( "DR UP 6905 Test 2 Coal MT OR"
Name ( "DR UP 6905 Test 2 Coal MT OR" )
Serial ( 2 )
MaxVelocity ( 0.00000 0 )
NextWagonUID ( 202 )
Durability ( 1 )
Engine (
UiD ( 199 )
EngineData ( UP_DDA40X_6905 SLI_UP_FRC_ENGINES )
)
Engine (
UiD ( 201 )
EngineData ( UP_SD40_2_3364 SLI_UNION_PACIFIC )
)
Engine (
UiD ( 195 )
EngineData ( UP_SD40_3016 SLI_UP_FRC_ENGINES )
)
Engine (
Flip ( )
UiD ( 200 )
EngineData ( UP_DDA40X_6912 SLI_UP_FRC_ENGINES )
)
Wagon (
WagonData ( UP37664_e UPCOAL1 )
UiD ( 89 )
)
Wagon (
WagonData ( UP38490_e UPCOAL1 )
UiD ( 90 )
)

ETC

I'm still learning as I go and gaining more info,

Mike

[copperpen]

Couplings in Open Rails are not like those in MSTS. It is impossible to set up a unit with no couplings because OR will automatically add one, and if two are defined it will ignore one of them. Further, it matters not how you define them, Chain, Automatic or Bar, a coupling is a coupling and can be uncoupled or coupled even if they are not the same type.. The whole coupler segment of OR although it works, is in need of an in depth overhaul.