[Genma Saotome]

- click on image to read displayed text.

20MPH on what appears to be a 2000-r curve at 10lbs of force in curvature resistance and it snaps an airhose? I don't think so.

Ummm, so what other info is needed besides the log?

---------- begin log -----------
Date/time = 11/21/2015 5:14:44 PM (2015-11-22 01:14:44Z)
BIOS = BIOS Date: 09/03/14 23:07:15 Ver: 05.06.05 (American Megatrends Inc.)
Processor = Intel® Core™ i7-5820K CPU @ 3.30GHz (12 threads, 6 cores, 3.3 GHz) (CPU Internal L1 384 KB) (CPU Internal L2 1536 KB) (CPU Internal L3 15360 KB)
Memory = 15.9 GB
Video = NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760 (4.0 GB RAM) (nvlddmkm 9.18.13.4460)
Video = NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760 (4.0 GB RAM) (nvlddmkm 9.18.13.4460)
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Sound = NVIDIA High Definition Audio (nvhda64v 1.3.32.1)
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Sound = Realtek High Definition Audio (rtkvhd64 6.0.1.7195)
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Disk = C: (Local Fixed Disk, NTFS, 465.5 GB, 237.6 GB free)
Disk = D: (Local Fixed Disk, NTFS, 931.5 GB, 313.9 GB free)
Disk = E: (Local Fixed Disk, NTFS, 1863.0 GB, 1708.6 GB free)
Disk = F: (Local Fixed Disk, NTFS, 74.5 GB, 29.5 GB free)
Disk = M: (Network Connection, NTFS, 913.9 GB, 693.2 GB free)
Disk = P: (Network Connection, NTFS, 913.9 GB, 693.2 GB free)
Disk = Q: (CD-ROM Disc, )
Disk = R: (CD-ROM Disc, )
Disk = S: (Network Connection, NTFS, 2747.7 GB, 1034.4 GB free)
OS = Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64-bit (6.1.7601)
Runtimes = 2.0.50727 SP2 3.0 SP2 3.5 SP1 4 Client 4 Full 4.0 Client
Runtime = 2.0.50727.5485 (32bit)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Version = X3324
Build = 0.0.5803.34176 (2015-11-21 18:59:12Z)
Logfile = d:\users\dave\msts\Open Rails - X3324 - 11.21.2015 5.14.44 PM.txt
Executable = RunActivityLAA.exe
Argument = -start
Argument = -activity
Argument = E:\Bin\MSTS Development\ROUTES\Cal-P\ACTIVITIES\Richmond Testing.act
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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AdhesionFactorChange = (user set) 7
AdhesionMovingAverageFilterSize = 10
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Autopilot = False
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AvatarURL = http://openrails.org...pport-logos.jpg
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Cab2DStretch = 0
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DoubleWire = False
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FullScreen = (user set) True
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HotStart = True
Language =
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Logging = True
LoggingFilename = (user set) {0} - {1} - {4}.txt
LoggingPath = (user set) d:\users\dave\msts
Menu_Selection = (user set) E:\Bin\MSTS Development, E:\Bin\MSTS Development\ROUTES\Cal-P, E:\Bin\MSTS Development\ROUTES\Cal-P\ACTIVITIES\Richmond Testing.act, , , , , ,
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MSTSBINSound = True
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Multiplayer_Host = 127.0.0.1
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Multiplayer_UpdateInterval = 10
Multiplayer_User = Dave
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mode = activity
Route = Southern Pacific's Cal-P, ca 1950
Activity = Test Richmond (E:\Bin\MSTS Development\ROUTES\Cal-P\ACTIVITIES\Richmond Testing.act)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Loading TRK TDB SIGCFG DAT ACT RDB CARSPAWN

Warning: Non-existent shape file E:\Bin\MSTS Development\ROUTES\Cal-P\shapes\Jp1Car01.s referenced in E:\Bin\MSTS Development\ROUTES\Cal-P\carspawn.dat:line 4

SIGSCR WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

Warning: When expecting a number, we found a ) marker. Using the default 1 in E:\Bin\MSTS Development\trains\trainset\XM_GN_USRA_DS\XM_GN_23715_LD.wag:line 6

Warning: When expecting a number, we found a ) marker. Using the default 1 in E:\Bin\MSTS Development\trains\trainset\XM_GN_USRA_DS\xm_gn_25096_ld.wag:line 13

Warning: When expecting a number, we found a ) marker. Using the default 1 in E:\Bin\MSTS Development\trains\trainset\XM_GN_USRA_DS\xm_gn_23715_ld.wag:line 6

Warning: Not sufficient track to place train

ENV SIGCFG SIGCFG TTYPE

Information: Allocation for 49,999 particles:

7,999,840 B RAM vertex data
1,199,976 B RAM index data (temporary)
7,999,840 B VRAM DynamicVertexBuffer
1,199,976 B VRAM IndexBuffer

[ATW]

You need to go in the con file increase the durability number to say 4 or anything above 1 where it gives you some extra speed exceeding chances or infinite up to where no hose breaks but still have overturning. You can even update your stock manually or with route riter adding the needed ORTS parameters to overcome this even on tangent curves.

[Genma Saotome]

Ok.

Is this defined anywhere in the manual? I've looked and can't find it.

[James Ross]

ATW, on 21 November 2015 - 07:03 PM, said:

You need to go in the con file increase the durability number to say 4 or anything above 1 where it gives you some extra speed exceeding chances or infinite up to where no hose breaks but still have overturning. You can even update your stock manually or with route riter adding the needed ORTS parameters to overcome this even on tangent curves.

Why is this needed, though? Surely Dave is well within expected operating parameters so there must be something else that is set unrealistically in the wagons or a bug. It would be more useful to document what wagon parameters affect this so they can be checked and corrected than the get-out-reality durability value. :)

[Genma Saotome]

James Ross, on 22 November 2015 - 01:29 AM, said:

Why is this needed, though? Surely Dave is well within expected operating parameters so there must be something else that is set unrealistically in the wagons or a bug. It would be more useful to document what wagon parameters affect this so they can be checked and corrected than the get-out-reality durability value. :)

I agree. Look at the data in the image: 20.8mph; I'm pretty sure it is a 2000R curve. The data in the coupler column looks unusually high, esp. w/ just 7 cars. This was run in a pure MSTS environment (e.g., nothing extra for OR features). The car data values are all likely to be several years old.

And shouldn't this feature be wholly independent of the car data?

[ATW]

I learned to overcome this with following an testing advice of Peter "Steamer_ctn" related to car unbalanced an was in your same situation.

May not be the realistic physics matching your car wag physics but I use these parameters in example as well as paying attention to center level of gravity values.

ORTSUnbalancedSuperElevation ( 69mm )
ORTSTrackGauge ( 4.0ft 8.5in )
ORTSRigidWheelBase ( 5.65ft 3.6in )

I yet need to add those 2 last parameters to other wag files including my newest releases even though I have used the first one which has solved the majority of curve issues but height of CentreOfGravity plays a big one in this an have seen a difference... its like carmen work fixing issues you come by which can be anything. Face it for now if you don't want your air hose detaching exactly at the first pop up warning because one of your cars wag physics on how you may operate, increase the con durability to allow you to get extra curve speed durability chances no matter how soft the curve an speed are or just add the safety parameters.

[Genma Saotome]

ATW, on 22 November 2015 - 03:21 PM, said:

... but height of CentreOfGravity plays a big one in this an have seen a difference... its like carmen work fixing issues you come by which can be anything.

Well it's likely to be this then. Grepping the trainset directory tells me very few .wag files have this value and a fair number that do have values of 0 0 0. I'll gin up some numbers for the cars of the consist in question and see what different that makes.

[steamer_ctn]

Genma Saotome, on 21 November 2015 - 05:25 PM, said:

20MPH on what appears to be a 2000-r curve at 10lbs of force in curvature resistance and it snaps an airhose? I don't think so.

There are probably a few factors influencing this result as follows:

i) There appears to be a small bug with initialising the default superelevation for curves > 2000m. - This has been corrected in #3325, and should ease the problem described in this post.

ii) However, the rolling stock also needs to be set up with a Cant deficiency or "Unbalanced Superelevation" - ATW's post describes the settings. Section 8.10 and 8.11 of the manual also provides details.

The link shown in the first post of this thread also provides some information on curve speed, and some stock setups as examples, as well as a testing methodology to study the impacts of different "Unbalanced Superelevations".

Later in the thread, it also talks about changing the consist durability to reduce the sensitivity of brake hose breakage if it is desired that this occur at values greater then the warning notice.

Note the curve speed limit warnings and penalties can be switched off in the options menu.

[Genma Saotome]

Ok... will pick up the newer release and test it, perhaps tomorrow.

[Genma Saotome]

Appears to be FIXED.


Q: Does the risk of overturning relate in any way to curve resistance or are the two independent?