Elvas Tower: Help on Tsection.dat file..... - Elvas Tower

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Help on Tsection.dat file..... before i go bald....

#11 User is offline   Lutz_s 

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 01:00 AM

Why do you need an editor for the tsection.dat? This file has less than 30 different parameters. (I did not count them though)
What you are writing sounds more like you want an editor which lets you create the trackshapes. The tsection.dat only contains values which shapes should be displayed and how the path for the trains runs through the shape. There is a value for the track gauge, but it makes no difference to the sims if the gauge is 2ft, 1.4m or anything else. Maybe this will be added sometime, but the few parameters needed in the tsection.dat don't call for an editor.

If you have problems defining your track, copy an existing one and change the parameters one after another.

Cheers Lutz

#12 User is offline   copperpen 

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 01:11 AM

I think that the concept of a dedicated track section editor is good if one includes the ability to write the required entries to a form of tsection.dat file. This could lead to tsections dedicated to a single track gauge which could in turn lead to making life easier for builders and users alike. Right now however, we do not know what method of track laying will be used moving forward, sectional or procedural or even if a tsection style file will be required in the future.

#13 User is offline   Simon E 

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 02:45 AM

View PostLutz_s, on 22 June 2015 - 01:00 AM, said:

Why do you need an editor for the tsection.dat? This file has less than 30 different parameters. (I did not count them though)
What you are writing sounds more like you want an editor which lets you create the trackshapes. The tsection.dat only contains values which shapes should be displayed and how the path for the trains runs through the shape. There is a value for the track gauge, but it makes no difference to the sims if the gauge is 2ft, 1.4m or anything else. Maybe this will be added sometime, but the few parameters needed in the tsection.dat don't call for an editor.

If you have problems defining your track, copy an existing one and change the parameters one after another.

Cheers Lutz




Why an Editor?, Because as we have read in this thread, and from experience, it is a delicate and VERY important part of the sim and can really screw things up (Like every route you have installed as a consequence) if someone gets it wrong. Which does, and has happened in the past.

Its interesting that you mention "trackshapes" we do need new track components, Like check-rails, Closures, Certain types of diamonds, Slab Tracks (Bare naked Track on Concrete slabs, with special clips), different ballast mound heights, ballast shoulders and of course textures. Did you know that Overhead wire is also attached to them?? (I have just found out something new!)

The gauge is important, because if you lay track in a route using the wrong width, Your route can really get off by quite a bit pretty fast, by quite many meters. (Think about it, Add it all up... you will see that this effect is accumulative over the route, And it makes that dreaded Goode-Homosoline effect worse as well), It is also what makes paths mysteriously break, With unclosed track sections. (dreaded blue poles), With TDB's And RDB's that don't rebuild cleanly. And crashes in the Sim.

So an editor is a great thing to have. It helps to get all this stuff right. You will see a lot more nicer tracks and roads coming up for download. An Editor helps you to get everything right, All the right shapes, Curves and lengths needed.... And them submit them to train-sim.co.uk, (Or it may be submitted to the Open Rails team in the future, Who knows?) So there are many reasons to have an editor... Its not just a little fancy Text Editor that I am talking about, now that would be a real waste of programming time...

Simon. :sign_thanks:

#14 User is offline   Simon E 

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 03:03 AM

View Postcopperpen, on 22 June 2015 - 01:11 AM, said:

I think that the concept of a dedicated track section editor is good if one includes the ability to write the required entries to a form of tsection.dat file. This could lead to tsections dedicated to a single track gauge which could in turn lead to making life easier for builders and users alike. Right now however, we do not know what method of track laying will be used moving forward, sectional or procedural or even if a tsection style file will be required in the future.


Yeah, The track laying method may become more different when we really get going with the Route Editor (Which looks like it is already underway!) The Tsection may become XML Which I think is a good way to go, Or as you say It might be totally unnecessary in the future... Who knows until we figure it all out. But this editor, would be a good "in the mean-time" thing to do to make peoples lives more easier (And routes more prototypical)..

And it is all about getting the right entries in the file, and associate them with the right shapes and textures... (And to make it more clear what is Rail, and what is ballast, Or whatever else the Rails maybe laid upon (Ballast-less on a Slab in a metro or bridge, or on the middle of a Street with a tram going down it, And some of those European Streets with trams, as you very probably well know are not just plain old cement) acleantrack1.ace, acleantrack2.ace and whatever is just cryptic and confusing to some people.. And Editor would help a lot in putting all these elements together properly and correctly. And even attaching the correct sounds to them too.

So I am not just talking about a quickly programmed, and sexed up "little text editor" here

Simon :)

#15 User is offline   Lutz_s 

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 12:46 PM

If I understand it correct you want a tsection.dat which can define every type of track, though you have in it a definition for a 10m shape with lets say 10 different types of ballast, and each of them with and without overhead wire. You can do it this way, but if you want to edit a current route, you run into the same problem you have, when you edit an old route with standard tracks and now use xtracks. Your tsection.dat for dynamic tracks will blow away, since the total amount of shapes will easily rise above of 40000, which is the maximum defined with xtracks today. So this must be redefined someway.

I can have a look if an editor can be programmed if you define what you want it to do.

Lutz

#16 User is offline   copperpen 

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 01:42 PM

My view of the tsection.dat going forward is that it could be broken down into several different versions, each one dealing with a particular track gauge, or range of gauges for a particular country. That would then free up enough section numbers to have electric with ohle, third and fourth rail and non electric with a range of sleeper/ballast combinations without treading into the 40000 range. Only one editor should be needed to cover all requirements. This however is all wishful thinking right now because we do not yet know which direction OR will be taking in the future WRT track.

#17 User is offline   Hamza97 

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 11:50 PM

I am highly in support of a tsection.dat editor, having experienced the anamoly of tsection.dat file, even a VERY SMALL mistake and things will get screwed up.

I think a small java based application (like SFM, RR) will suffice till about the time OR only track system is introduced.

#18 User is offline   Simon E 

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Posted 24 June 2015 - 09:32 AM

View Postcopperpen, on 22 June 2015 - 01:42 PM, said:

My view of the tsection.dat going forward is that it could be broken down into several different versions, each one dealing with a particular track gauge, or range of gauges for a particular country. That would then free up enough section numbers to have electric with ohle, third and fourth rail and non electric with a range of sleeper/ballast combinations without treading into the 40000 range. Only one editor should be needed to cover all requirements. This however is all wishful thinking right now because we do not yet know which direction OR will be taking in the future WRT track.


That is kind of how I was thinking about the gauges. They have a common base, All the same section component, (Check Rails, Diamonds, Frogs, Crossovers, Closures) to start with, and some kind of "profile" like dynatrax type thing, Makes different gauges or combines two gauges to make dual gauge sections, And then what kind of sleepers you want, how high is your ballast mound (If you are using ballast...that is).

And also LOADING gauge is important (this guage, The Loading gauge is the clearance between trains and different structures on the permanent way, Like Gantries, Speed Signs, Signals, Platforms, Road over Rail Bridge pylons, and tunnel walls... and all that kind of stuff. (it does look quite stupid and amusing at the same time, so see a train going through the platforms, Or Signal masts or part of the train sticking out of a wall!)

All these things you mention and what I have added, Is the reason I have not yet attempted to write any code to deal with any of this, As I need to have all the facts about how the track system really worked (or does work), As I did mention before that I found out some unknown stuff, that a certain person took advantage of (rather effectively I would add) I learned of this from a well known route creator from Australia, And it sounded very interesting indeed.what this person done. Its exactly what we need!

I am also going to try and acquire the source code of Ts_Terraform. and TS Tools, And combine the best of both of them together, And end up with a Route Extractor on steroids. And combine all that with That Goku guy's Route editor, Which I have had a look at, and like very much. He just needs to release the code, and we will have an Open rails world editor that leave Trainz and railworks in the dust. I think I have just about nearly sealed the deal with the three Individuals involved with these Terraform tools... I will keep everyone posted on that aspect. (They know it is not for profit, and for open rails Use.) http://www.elvastower.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/sign_rockon.gif

Simon.

#19 User is offline   Simon E 

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Posted 24 June 2015 - 10:02 AM

View PostHamza97, on 23 June 2015 - 11:50 PM, said:

I am highly in support of a tsection.dat editor, having experienced the anamoly of tsection.dat file, even a VERY SMALL mistake and things will get screwed up.

I think a small java based application (like SFM, RR) will suffice till about the time OR only track system is introduced.


Speaking of a temporary Measure like this one you suggest, might be on my list of to-do's, As I said in my detailed post to our other friend at OpenRails, I need to investigate some extra (well not so little in my eyes) things that I have discovered about the track system In MSTS, It turns out Kuju STILL had some secrets up their sneaky badly documented sleeve.... I myself and someone else I know is pretty good at reverse engineering... (I mean right back to human readable source code level... No I AM NOT JOKING!)

Then I will write a utility like you suggest.. I just dont want to create yet another incompatible "MSTS based" hack for poor OpenRails devs to deal with.

And also appears that there is an ability which is hidden in the track system to Change or not have Overhead Catenery Wires, And with the Signal System there is also the ability to have a number plate label!! (all this would be very useful for a train dispatch type second monitor setup if you wanted to have like a CTC (Central Train Control) like affair.

So there are still little bits and pieces (which were probably buggy, which is why they were never exposed for use, by the "mere mortals" as the PC companies call the poor users! And Programmers sometimes too!) That we are still finding. I have set my mission to find all the rest of them, I think I have just found the very tools to enable me to do that!!

In the meantime I will figure out how to present a friendly human interface to the Tsection with a proper Application/Editor as a temporary measure, until everything is properly figured out, So we can future proof things...

I think it is about time I joined the OpenRails dev team. (That means they will have another Electric Suburban train driver Who also drives Freight/Diesel contributing to OpenRails!)

Simon.

#20 User is offline   vince 

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Posted 24 June 2015 - 11:27 AM

View PostSimon E, on 24 June 2015 - 10:02 AM, said:

".......................................snip.........................................
And also appears that there is an ability which is hidden in the track system to Change or not have Overhead Catenery Wires, And with the Signal System there is also the ability to have a number plate label!! (all this would be very useful for a train dispatch type second monitor setup if you wanted to have like a CTC (Central Train Control) like affair.
.....................snip.....................................................
Simon.

Being able to select/mix catenary, third rail (some areas have tracks with both) and non-electrified while laying the track would be a blessing for the Long Island RR I'm building.
Pictures here . . . http://www.trainsim....php?albumid=248

regards,
vince cockeram

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