[rickloader]

Hello, I`m making my own signals in 3DC 7.1.2.OR will usually display the semaphore arm, lights, and post, but not the associated operating gear ( rods, balance arms, levers etc). I like to include these animated items as it greatly enhances the model. A signal is more than an arm on a stick!
MSTS will animate both the signal and the extra gear. OR does not show the animated items. No errors are generated in the log file and the signal is correctly shown in the dispatcher.
I have the hierarchy as "main" and each animated shape in a unique sub group of main. ( maybe a child object, but I don`t quite understand this term) The actual signal arms are "head1" "head2" The 3dc exporter won`t allow me to call the parent group "signal " and insists on "main" with a "main" shape too. The animations are 3 keys 0-1-2. 0 and 2 being the static condition ,red, and 2 the signal off, green.
Now my questions (please)
Is OR animation work in progress? If so, I will just wait!
Are there any special requirements for shape animation in OR?
Thanks, and my special thanks to the author of "dispatch viewer"
rick
x3008

[scottb613]

Hi Rick,

I know nothing about signals - but - I wish you luck... While you're probably not doing a US model - I prefer routes with semaphores and one of my biggest gripes with the signals we've had since MSTS earliest days - is that when smoke from a locomotive is viewed through the alpha'd 2D semaphore texture - you get a big blank square where the smoke is invisible... I hope some day this can be improved... Best of luck...
:bigboss:

Regards,
Scott

[rickloader]

Thanks, Scott. Yes, these are British semaphores, and as every company had distinct designs custom signals make a big contribution to the authentic feel of the route. Few modelers use Alpha these days, I think. Even MSTS can cope with properly modeled shapes. After all, even a detailed signal would be less polys than a coach.
Incidentally Scott, I know you are a big supporter of 3dc 7, and I still prefer it as the most stable version. But is the 3dc7 exporter reliable? I have a home signal which displays in OR (minus the animated parts). Cut a notch in the end of the arm and re-texture it yellow to make a distant signal. So I`m exporting virtually the same model, as a new shape, and yet this time nothing at all shows in OR.
I will post some pics if needed, but I`m not sure an invisible signal will tell much!
rick
edit : in my original post I gave the keys wrongly. Animation is 0 and 2 the static position with key 1 the off, green position. sorry

[scottb613]

Hi Rick,

Again - my ignorance might be showing - this might be what you're asking the ORTS team for - but - I thought I had read somewhere the animated part of a semaphore in MSTS could only be an alpha'd texture to support the rotation - if not it's a misconception I've had for years...
:)

As far as 3DC goes - yeah 7.1.2 is the most stable version 3DC has ever seen and I was under the impression the exporter was rock solid... If you aren't using 712 I have all the files safely archived away for posterity and I could send you them if needed... I'm using 9.3 now - and while not as stable - it has too many improvements to ever go back... The biggest one I can think of off the top of my head is the ability to select points, faces, and edges - I can recall it being a real bear sometimes back in 712 on intricate parts - the newer versions really improved that...

So on your specific issue - it sounds like you have 3DC animation down - as you noted "main" is required to be the top most level of the hierarchy you are exporting - is there some reason you need it to be "signal" ? As 3DC works - the group/folder is what is animated and not the actual part.... So whatever part you drop in the group previously animated will inherit the animation already assigned... So you need as separate group/folder for each distinctly animated part... I don't think I'm telling you anything you don't already know - just trying to cover the bases... When the whole thing is invisible - can you see it in Shape Viewer and MSTS ?

Regards,
Scott

[James Ross]

rickloader, on 23 April 2015 - 04:02 AM, said:

MSTS will animate both the signal and the extra gear. OR does not show the animated items. No errors are generated in the log file and the signal is correctly shown in the dispatcher.

Please could you post a picture of the hierarchy from Shape Viewer and a copy of the section from sigcfg.dat describing the SignalShape? OR is definitely trying to do the same as MSTS but you may well have found something we've gotten wrong, and this is not the simplest bit of code either.

[That Genset Foamer]

scottb613, on 23 April 2015 - 05:26 AM, said:

Hi Rick,

I know nothing about signals - but - I wish you luck... While you're probably not doing a US model - I prefer routes with semaphores and one of my biggest gripes with the signals we've had since MSTS earliest days - is that when smoke from a locomotive is viewed through the alpha'd 2D semaphore texture - you get a big blank square where the smoke is invisible... I hope some day this can be improved... Best of luck...
:)

Regards,
Scott

Hi Scott,
It's off-topic from the original point but I'm in the process of making 'new and improved' semaphores for OpenRails, based on the US&S T-2 design. Might release 'em here when I learn how to write the signal scripts of my own that 'mesh' with Jovet's system...in the meantime a basic ABS set with brute-force linking could do the trick.

[rickloader]

Thanks Scott and James. Here is my basic stop signal. Works fine in MSTS. In OR the Head (arm) animates, but the other animated parts aren`t displayed ie invisible.
SignalShape (
"SRStop.s"
"SR Stop"
SignalSubObjs ( 1
SignalSubObj ( 0
"HEAD1"
"Stop arm"
SigSubType ( SIGNAL_HEAD )
SignalFlags ( DEFAULT )
SigSubSType ( "SRStop" )
)
)
)
http://www.atomic-al...icksStopSig.jpg
Looking at the shape viewer hierarchy, I realise I could probably tidy and reduce this model, and it might give OR more of a chance.Although I have used translucency for the glass, making this opaque doesn`t help. The "main" object here is a little 2poly quad you can just see at the arm pivot.Sometimes I use the lamp as a "main" object, and usually I bundle all the static items into their own group away from the "main" and animated groups. The 3dc hierarchy is shown on the left of the pic. So the Rod animates up and down, and the balance arm rotates
Scott, your basic rundown is very helpful, because I just picked up modeling slowly, painfully, and there is lots I don`t know. The reason I mentioned "Signal" in place of "main" is that the MSTS Techdocs specify "signal", and I wondered if OR was expecting "signal"
Before posting I should have made a simple signal using only cuboids. If OR can run the cuboid animation we know it is my shape model at fault. I try this and report back. James, thanks for your involvement. I`m really reluctant to trouble you, but your comment OR has no specific requirements is a big help.
rick

[rickloader]

Back again! My basic cuboid signal has the same hierarchy as SRstop, but the parts are just scaled cubes. Head1 (arm) and main (a pivot)are shown in OR, and animate, together with lights. Rod and balance arm (ancillary animated parts) do not display. In MSTS all display and animate.
http://www.atomic-al...SRstopBasic.jpg
Balancearm and rod (green and blue) dont display. Main is yellow, head1 red .Rod just goes up and down Balarm rotates
It would be interesting to know if any other signals have successfully incorporated extra animation. I believe Jovetts` are very advanced.

[rickloader]

OK, I think we have established that OR doesn`t display extra animated parts. Bug report?
Moving on to OR not displaying some signals, this appears to be an issue with the 3dc exporter. This creates custom fields for MSTS transparency and translucency.If "translucency" is entered in the "Custom MSTS" box, OR will not display the signal. However, if the custom MSTS box is left blank, and just the tx alpha and alpha pr fields completed, OR will show the signal complete with translucency. This may not be OR at fault because the shape viewer hierarchy shows the group names as "Translucency", and not their proper names.
Thanks to Scott for the info that it is the Group that contains the animation info. very useful.
Another 3dc pitfall, is if you forget to deselect "animation", any further operations will be recorded as an animation of that part. These extra frames confuse both MSTS and OR. They can be removed by "object layers" in the "object operations panel"
Any other signal modelers out there care to comment?
rick

[James Ross]

rickloader, on 23 April 2015 - 02:35 PM, said:

http://www.atomic-al...icksStopSig.jpg

I was going to explain how OR would take that hierarchy and decide what's visible and what isn't but I'm not even sure what the code in OR is doing. I think that any sub objects not linked to the sigcfg.dat data will get hidden (i.e. sub objects 2, 3 and maybe 4 for your signal) and any that are (i.e. sub object 1) will be controlled by the SignalSubObj data in world files.

Evidently it doesn't match MSTS.

I'm going to have a look at the content I have and see if I can figure out a better approach in the next few days if I can.