[copperpen]

Definitely has merit moving forward post version 1 of Open Rails. I would imagine that we would have to implement cab switching while the train is moving to do this in the first instance. As there are not that many keys available to allocate to functions, this if controlled from the lead cab would need to have a pop-up window, mouse controlled, to select the DPU group and power/dynamic requirements of that group.

[edwardk]

Keep in mind that in the real world, the engineer would use a computer screen in the cab to do this and right now this of course is not possible so the only method would be using a pop up window. In fact, the train operations window could be used for starters. Additional information would have to be provided for the locomotives in the consist. The default operation would be how the locomotives are being used now. First line of thought would be to select the locomotive via the train operations window and while the locomotive selected, choose the option "Fence Up". At this point, while the locomotive is still selected, the same keys that is used for the player train can be used for the selected DPU train.

Edward K.

[gpz]

It might be best to implement the real world locomotive computer display as a pop-up window, and not starting to play with replacement simplified solutions. (The window may be simplified and focused to this particular function, but the functionality itself may not.)

[firealarmguy]

The reason why I brought this up was because Run 8 has it, and for a week since I started this thread, I'm coming up with ideas on how it should be laid out, and yes, I had a pop-up window in mind, such as maybe F3. And maybe have "push buttons" you can click on, just like the real Locotrol III.

[EricF]

I agree that a pop-up control might be the best way to implement DPU settings, and have it mimic a real-world screen in miniature. But unless it could be implemented simply and quickly, I'd nominate it to be held off until after v1.0 -- it's more within the scope of "beyond MSTS".

[gpz]

Is there a kind of real world Locontrol "User's Guide" available somewhere, with screenshots and usage instrustions? (Probably as part of some kind of locomotive drivers' training material.)

[Tyler Bundy]

http://www.rr-fallen...l/es44dc-om.pdf

I don't know if this will help, but its right from the horse's mouth. PDF page 106 starts the Distributed Power section. I haven't had time to read all of the text yet.

If it were to ever be implemented, it would be nice to be able to model and specify the individual radio control systems as there were several. The popup window would be an excellent option for control display(such as a mockup of the computer screen), but I believe a physical key combination would be nice to have. The reasoning for specific keys is that one could model a straight helper or old-school radio control like the Southern training video above. I suppose you could "unlock" or separate the helpers using an on/off selection, and maybe move the fence/helper set on the popup, but the physical keys could control the selected throttle. It is necessary at times to have control of both the lead and helper at the same time. It would also be SUPER cool to implement this idea in a model of UP 844 to use diesel helpers...only when needed! I think there are a number of applications this could be used for.


I agree that this feature is not needed immediately if the progress of v1.0 is impeded. Still, something to think about for the future.

Tyler

[markus_GE]

For me, the normal controls (A, D, W, S, and maybe the dynamics keys (forgot the default)) would well work with modifiers (Ctrl, Shift, Alt) for DPU control. Maybe that´s a possibility (DPU controls are no primary controls, IMHO, so modifiers should be OK)?

Cheers, Markus

[Traindude]

FYI the September 2010 issue of Trains Magazine (USA) dedicated an entire cover story to how DPU systems were developed and how they work. Another article in the same issue discusses various precursors from the 1960's and 70's used by SOU, L&N, N&W and C&O that paved the way for modern DPU's. Maybe these articles could prove useful to the OR developers.

[gpz]

markus_GE, on 14 March 2015 - 01:36 PM, said:

For me, the normal controls (A, D, W, S, and maybe the dynamics keys (forgot the default)) would well work with modifiers (Ctrl, Shift, Alt) for DPU control. Maybe that´s a possibility (DPU controls are no primary controls, IMHO, so modifiers should be OK)?

By reading the pdf, there are a total of 7 keys are needed for the operation:

• Move one unit to rear group
  
• Move one unit to front group
  
• Switch rear group to traction
  
• Switch rear group to idle
  
• Switch rear group to dyn.brake
  
• Increase rear group traction or dyn.brake
  
• Decrease rear group traction or dyn.brake

How would you assign them?

[superheatedsteam]

gpz, on 14 March 2015 - 03:12 PM, said:

By reading the pdf, there are a total of 7 keys are needed for the operation:

• Move one unit to rear group
  
• Move one unit to front group
  
• Switch rear group to traction
  
• Switch rear group to idle
  
• Switch rear group to dyn.brake
  
• Increase rear group traction or dyn.brake
  
• Decrease rear group traction or dyn.brake

How would you assign them?

Why not use the Function keys on the keyboard?

I would suggest having a key combination like 'CTRL + D' to get into 'DPU mode'. Once in 'DPU mode' use the F1 to F8 keys on the key board as described in the manual. Then to exit 'DPU mode', either use the DPU F8 button or the 'CTRL + D' key combination to exit 'DPU mode' and return the function keys to their normal assigns.

Note that there should be 8 keys for DPU operations. F8 is used for both 'Exit' and 'Cancel' functions.

Also note that F4 has a dual function as 'Idle' and 'Execute'.

Having some sort of display of the status of the remote units would also be required. On modern locomotives (as per the ES44DC manual) this information is part of the visual display unit. For older locomotives like the ALCO 636 that don't have these displays, these were/are retro fitted with a LOCOTROL 'box' that has push buttons to perform the same functions as F1 – F8 above as well as a LCD screen displaying the status information of the remote units.

I would also suggest when coding DPU functions, that future integration with the cab controls/displays be provisioned for if possible.

I thank you for your time and efforts.

Cheers,

Marek.

[markus_GE]

gpz, on 14 March 2015 - 03:12 PM, said:

By reading the pdf, there are a total of 7 keys are needed for the operation:

• Move one unit to rear group
• Move one unit to front group
• Switch rear group to traction
• Switch rear group to idle
• Switch rear group to dyn.brake
• Increase rear group traction or dyn.brake
• Decrease rear group traction or dyn.brake

How would you assign them?

My Point was just a Suggestion of what could be used, and also to throw into the discussio the idea of using modifiers for DPU controls (since I would not consider them Primary controls).

Cheers, Markus

[gpz]

What are those vertical green lines mean on the display? To my understanding, only two groups may be defined: front and rear. But on example display it looks like three different throttle settings are displayed.

[superheatedsteam]

I know with LOCOTROL III, more than 2 groups can be defined though I don't know the limit. The BHP Billiton world record train used 8 x AC6000 locomotives in 5 groups.

2 Locomotives + 168 Cars,
2 Locomotives + 168 Cars,
2 Locomotives + 168 Cars,
1 Locomotive + 178 Cars,
1 Locomotive at the rear

I will have to go through my reference material, but if I'm not mistaken the vertical green lines defines the DPU 'groups'

A: and B: are 2 locos in the first group and C: is a single loco in the second group.

D: E: and G: are the third DPU 'group' in the train.

I suspect the 'Comm' column indicates a loco (F:?) in that group that does not support DPU control therefore can't transmit its status. I assume that it's MU'd between the E: and G: units and will therefore throttle and brake in unison with the other units in that third group.

Bear in mind that I'm not a train driver.

Cheers,

Marek.

[gpz]

Ah, all right. There are two kind of groupings here. There are only 2 "control groups" can be defined, and up to 6 "locomotive groups". And locomotive groups can be assigned/removed one-by-one between front and rear "control groups".