Brakes Question ?
#11
Posted 20 February 2015 - 10:02 AM
WRT Prieger's Pro Brakes, why is the MaxBrakeForce() so much higher for small switch engines... about 10X what I expected. A missing decimal point perhaps?
#12
Posted 20 February 2015 - 10:26 AM
Hi Folks,
First off - appreciate all the input...
:)
Seems like we have two different opinions voiced...
1) My freight car physics might be messed up - and - that could very be... I believe I got them with Bob Bodoin with his "Plainsman" blessing... LOL - but - it wouldn't be the first time I've messed something up...
2) The other is the forces might be a bit out of whack on ORTS...
I have no way of knowing which is the case...
I did try upgrading the brakes to the Pro Cast Iron version included with Route Righter - and - same deal - 1% brake on a 2.4% grade is like throwing out a boat anchor...
These are the values I updated and my full WAG file is attached...
WrxPRR1hop55-LD.wag (3.91K)
Number of downloads: 281
Regards,
Scott
First off - appreciate all the input...
:)
Seems like we have two different opinions voiced...
1) My freight car physics might be messed up - and - that could very be... I believe I got them with Bob Bodoin with his "Plainsman" blessing... LOL - but - it wouldn't be the first time I've messed something up...
2) The other is the forces might be a bit out of whack on ORTS...
I have no way of knowing which is the case...
I did try upgrading the brakes to the Pro Cast Iron version included with Route Righter - and - same deal - 1% brake on a 2.4% grade is like throwing out a boat anchor...
These are the values I updated and my full WAG file is attached...
Comment ( 70t railcar Cast Iron Brake Shoe Equipped Max Braking values by Bill Prieger. Additional braking parameters contributed by Jean-Louis Chauvin. "Percentage Braking" theory provided generously by Rich Evarts. ) BrakeEquipmentType( "Handbrake, Triple_valve, Auxilary_reservoir, Emergency_brake_reservoir" ) BrakeSystemType( "Air_single_pipe" ) MaxBrakeForce( 0.1346kN ) MaxHandbrakeForce( 30.2kN ) NumberOfHandbrakeLeverSteps( 100 ) EmergencyBrakeResMaxPressure( 90 ) TripleValveRatio( 2.5 ) MaxReleaseRate( 1.86 ) MaxApplicationRate( 0.9 ) MaxAuxilaryChargingRate( 1.684 ) EmergencyResCapacity( 2.604 ) EmergencyResChargingRate( 1.684 ) BrakeCylinderPressureForMaxBrakeBrakeForce( .50 )
WrxPRR1hop55-LD.wag (3.91K)
Number of downloads: 281
Regards,
Scott
#13
Posted 20 February 2015 - 10:43 AM
Hi Folks,
Just so I understand everything correctly...
1% application of brakes equaling about 15 or 16 PSI - seems appropriate ???
It's just that this 15 PSI shouldn't be stopping my heavily loaded train on a steep grade - correct ???
Regards,
Scott
Just so I understand everything correctly...
1% application of brakes equaling about 15 or 16 PSI - seems appropriate ???
It's just that this 15 PSI shouldn't be stopping my heavily loaded train on a steep grade - correct ???
Regards,
Scott
#14
Posted 20 February 2015 - 10:59 AM
#15
Posted 20 February 2015 - 11:20 AM
Hi Dave,
OK - did a real quick test - MSTS - same location - same train - it take 40% to 60% brakes to hold the speed in check...
Seems to me it might be an ORTS issue ?
Regards,
Scott
OK - did a real quick test - MSTS - same location - same train - it take 40% to 60% brakes to hold the speed in check...
Seems to me it might be an ORTS issue ?
Regards,
Scott
#16
Posted 20 February 2015 - 11:21 AM
A 1% application should give you a 15 pound BC set, achieved through a 6 pound BP reduction.
Those numbers you are showing there are very similar to those that I got runaways with. Something really seems "out of whack" here?
Cheers, Markus
Those numbers you are showing there are very similar to those that I got runaways with. Something really seems "out of whack" here?
Cheers, Markus
#17
Posted 20 February 2015 - 11:31 AM
Hi Markus,
Maybe one of the ORTS options are causing different results ???
Regards,
Scott
Maybe one of the ORTS options are causing different results ???
Regards,
Scott
#18
Posted 20 February 2015 - 11:34 AM
Here´s an excerpt from a log file of ORTS (some of the recent versions, probably not the most recent one - but I haven´t changed anything in the options for about 3 months at least):
Maybe somebody can read something into the settings if you, Scott, also post this excerpt?
Cheers, Markus
AdhesionFactor = (user set) 100 AdhesionFactorChange = 10 AdhesionMovingAverageFilterSize = 10 AdhesionProportionalToWeather = (user set) True Alerter = (user set) True AlerterDisableExternal = True Autopilot = False AuxActionEnabled = False AvatarURL = (user set) http://www.openrails.org/images/ICONmediumOD.jpg BrakePipeChargingRate = 21 BreakCouplers = (user set) True Cab2DStretch = (user set) 65 CarVibratingLevel = (user set) 1 CircularSpeedGauge = False ConditionalLoadOfNightTextures = (user set) True CurveResistanceSpeedDependent = (user set) True CurveSpeedDependent = False DataLogger = False DataLoggerSeparator = (user set) tab DataLogMisc = False DataLogPerformance = (user set) False DataLogPhysics = False DataLogSpeedUnits = route DataLogStart = False DataLogStationStops = False DataLogTrainSpeed = False DataLogTSContents = (user set) 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0 DataLogTSInterval = 10 DayAmbientLight = (user set) 26 DistantMountains = True DistantMountainsViewingDistance = 40000 DoubleWire = (user set) True DynamicShadows = (user set) True EnhancedActCompatibility = (user set) True ExtendedAIShunting = (user set) True FastFullScreenAltTab = False FullScreen = (user set) True GraduatedRelease = False HotStart = True Language = (user set) en LODBias = 0 LODViewingExtention = (user set) True Logging = True LoggingFilename = OpenRailsLog.txt LoggingPath = C:\Users\markus\Desktop Menu_Selection = (user set) C:\MSTS\Train Simulator, C:\MSTS\Train Simulator\ROUTES\atsfgs, C:\MSTS\Train Simulator\ROUTES\atsfgs\ACTIVITIES\Gallup Local - OR.act ModelInstancing = (user set) True MSTSBINSound = True Multiplayer = False Multiplayer_Host = (user set) Multiplayer_Port = 30000 Multiplayer_UpdateInterval = 10 Multiplayer_User = (user set) MultiplayerClient = False MultiplayerServer = False NoForcedRedAtStationStops = False OverrideNonElectrifiedRoutes = False PerformanceTuner = False PerformanceTunerTarget = (user set) 40 PreferDDSTexture = (user set) True PressureUnit = Automatic Profiling = False ProfilingFrameCount = 0 ProfilingTime = 0 ReplayPauseBeforeEnd = True ReplayPauseBeforeEndS = (user set) 60 RetainersOnAllCars = (user set) True ScreenshotPath = C:\Users\markus\Pictures\Open Rails ShaderModel = 3 ShadowAllShapes = (user set) True ShadowMapBlur = (user set) False ShadowMapCount = (user set) 2 ShadowMapDistance = 1250 ShadowMapResolution = (user set) 2048 ShowAvatar = False ShowErrorDialogs = True SignalLightGlow = (user set) True SoundDetailLevel = 5 SoundVolumePercent = (user set) 70 SuperElevationGauge = 1435 SuperElevationMinLen = 50 SuppressConfirmations = (user set) True SuppressShapeWarnings = False TunnelResistanceDependent = (user set) True Units = (user set) US UseAdvancedAdhesion = True UseLargeAddressAware = True UseLocationPassingPaths = (user set) True UseMSTSEnv = False UseSuperElevation = (user set) 3 VerticalSync = (user set) True ViewDispatcher = (user set) True ViewingDistance = (user set) 2500 ViewingFOV = (user set) 35 WindowGlass = (user set) True WindowPosition_Activity = (user set) 42, 47 WindowPosition_CarOperations = (user set) 70, 56 WindowPosition_Compass = (user set) 0, 0 WindowPosition_ComposeMessage = (user set) 17, 54 WindowPosition_DriverAid = 100, 100 WindowPosition_Help = (user set) 76, 78 WindowPosition_NextStation = 0, 100 WindowPosition_Quit = (user set) 43, 52 WindowPosition_Switch = (user set) 0, 42 WindowPosition_TrackMonitor = (user set) 0, 100 WindowPosition_TrainOperations = (user set) 57, 28 WindowSize = (user set) 1360x768 Wire = True WorldObjectDensity = 10 YoungestFailedToRestore = 0
Maybe somebody can read something into the settings if you, Scott, also post this excerpt?
Cheers, Markus
#19
Posted 20 February 2015 - 12:03 PM
Scott's numbers are the same as mine: a single click on the ' key is shown as 1% -- one percent of what isn't known... it just says 1%. It produces a 16 PSI brake setting... and the train stops.
It does not make sense that touching the brake key once will do that much, especially as Scott reports he had to go 40-60% (of something) in MSTS to hold the speed incheck -- not stop, just manage the speed.
Something isn't right somewhere.
It does not make sense that touching the brake key once will do that much, especially as Scott reports he had to go 40-60% (of something) in MSTS to hold the speed incheck -- not stop, just manage the speed.
Something isn't right somewhere.
#20
Posted 20 February 2015 - 12:13 PM