Brakes Question ?
#1
Posted 19 February 2015 - 05:41 PM
Been running some heavy coal on pretty steep hills - it's a pair of Rick's (BLW) F-3's with 45 coal cars and a caboose in tow... I am running down a 2.4% grade and I guess F-3's don't have dynamic brakes but they seem to be self lapping... Here is my question - I can't even apply 1% brakes with completely stopping the train in less than a minute... So what I don't seem able to do is put a few pounds on the brake system to add drag to hold the train back and maintain a constant speed - it's all or nothing - I set the brakes to 1% for a few seconds - then off - if I don't it just stops me... Maybe I have a gross conceptual error - but - I would think with a heavy load on a steep grade I would need a pretty decent amount of brakes to hold me back - 1% shouldn't be stopping me in my tracks... I don't know if this is an OR issue - an engine issue - or a freight car braking system error... The F5 HUD shots follows - any input most welcome...
Regards,
Scott
#2
Posted 19 February 2015 - 06:46 PM
cheers
Derek
#3
Posted 19 February 2015 - 06:56 PM
I find that I can set up a little air and do what you're talking about when running non-self lapping brakes on steam. But in diesels with self lapping brakes I get the same problem - a 1% application will stop the train, not hold it. So I find myself fanning the brakes - apply, release, apply, release, ad nauseum - for the length of the downgrade. Or you can do the dangerous thing and apply-release-apply until you get the brakes bled off and weakened enough to just hold the train. Of course, if you go past that point it's YAAAAHAAAHAAAAHOOOOOOIE!
What you might try is going into a car's .wag file and adjusting the MaxApplicationRate - for example mine is usually set to 3.5, so I might change it down to 1.75 - then putting together a consist of 45 copies of that same car and testing it on your hill. Make adjustments and try it again, and again, until you get the braking you desire. Once you find a setting you're pleased with you can use a program like EngMod to change the setting in all your cars. While you're doing it you can check MaxReleaseRate as well to get the response you desire.
Good luck! :bigboss:
#4
Posted 19 February 2015 - 07:05 PM
Time to start playing with the max brake values, maximum application values, etc.
#5
Posted 19 February 2015 - 08:15 PM
#6
Posted 19 February 2015 - 11:42 PM
Genma Saotome, on 19 February 2015 - 08:15 PM, said:
Sounds like the brake line pressures are managed correctly, and also the screenshot above assures it. Something wrong is going on with the forces here.
#7
Posted 20 February 2015 - 04:10 AM
All pressure values, thus, seem OK, which only leaves one places that might cause the problems: The max brake force set for the cars. Could you please open the WAG file of the problematic car, search for "BrakeForce" and post what you find on these lines (they donĀ“t follow each other like shown here):
MaxBrakeForce(
BrakeCylinderPressureForMaxBrakeBrakeForce(
As for correct braking forces, I have just yesterday inquired about the same in another thread here on the board (please disregard the first post, it has accidentally been changed by someone of the staff, who edited it instead of replying to it).
Cheers, Markus
#8
Posted 20 February 2015 - 05:01 AM
Using the cast iron set, I changed some SD70Aces and a 100T test car. With three Aces and 41 cars I was able to hold my speed at around 36mph on a 2.5% grade with about 50% reduction of the air. The speed could have been lower if I had started braking sooner.
#9
Posted 20 February 2015 - 09:44 AM
I set most of my cars up with the ProPack 5 percentage braking physics when I used MSTS because I liked kicking cars. There was once something said about "no noticeable change in the way trains handle overall" in regards to the ProPack 5 and I enjoyed using it very much with MSTS.
Now that I use the latest Open Rails, I find that percentage braking seems to be taken literally, like the cars have no brakes. Has anyone else noticed this or was this discussed years ago?
Tyler
#10
Posted 20 February 2015 - 10:00 AM
Tyler Bundy, on 20 February 2015 - 09:44 AM, said:
Now that I use the latest Open Rails, I find that percentage braking seems to be taken literally, like the cars have no brakes. Has anyone else noticed this or was this discussed years ago?
Tyler
IIRC Open Rails always looks for values and ignores formulas.
If that's incorrect, I'd love to be corrected.