Elvas Tower: Changes to MP signalling and Train Control - Elvas Tower

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Changes to MP signalling and Train Control First phase now committed Rate Topic: -----

#11 User is offline   eolesen 

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 07:20 AM

I like everything, except for the part where you say MP can't be used on an un-signaled route...

I've found MP useful for testing during development, and it's a cardinal rule not to install signals until the track is done.

There are also several switching routes which don't have signals at all (presumably Dave's Goose Island will be one of them?).

#12 User is offline   Csantucci 

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 08:09 AM

I have a MP session on wednesday. I foresee to do it with the 1888 release, because it is not yet possible have track cleared when running backwards, which is a big limitation. Maybe I can convince the other players to have a short testing session with the actual release, so that I can provide some feedback, but I'm not sure. I agree on first Jijun's request, and in principle also with the second one.

#13 User is offline   roeter 

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 08:59 AM

View PostJTang, on 17 December 2013 - 05:23 AM, said:

2. Currently switch and signal are connected, i.e. change signals will change switches, but not the other way. I think this is too much a restriction. Dispatcher should be able to throw switches, and signals should be computed from signal scripts based on route_set and next_signal.

There isn't a single signalling system anywhere in the world where you can throw a switch once a signal has been cleared over that switch.
If the setting of a switch has to be changed but a signal has allready been cleared over that switch, then first that signal has to be reset.
That is not a restriction specific to OR, but a normal, standard, universal rule.
In another thread somewhere it is clearly stated that "OR is a simulator, and not a game".
That goes for physics, scenary etc. - but also for signalling.
Just try any of the signalling simulators that are available (there are plenty of these, some for free), and you'll see what I mean.

Regards,
Rob Roeterdink

#14 User is offline   roeter 

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 09:02 AM

View Posteolesen, on 17 December 2013 - 07:20 AM, said:

I like everything, except for the part where you say MP can't be used on an un-signaled route...

I've found MP useful for testing during development, and it's a cardinal rule not to install signals until the track is done.

There are also several switching routes which don't have signals at all (presumably Dave's Goose Island will be one of them?).

Please read the first paragraph again - all in good time.
To get a train out of "Wait Dispatcher" mode if there are no signals need some direct control of the train - and that is not available yet.

Regards,
Rob Roeterdink

#15 User is offline   JTang 

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 12:28 AM

Too much restriction will kill the fun of MP.
MP IN OR IS A GAME, AND MAKE IT FUN IS ESSENTIAL.
IWe must maintain a level of flexibility that none euroean style of railroading can be achieved.

#16 User is offline   roeter 

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 01:39 AM

View PostJTang, on 18 December 2013 - 12:28 AM, said:

Too much restriction will kill the fun of MP.
MP IN OR IS A GAME, AND MAKE IT FUN IS ESSENTIAL.
IWe must maintain a level of flexibility that none euroean style of railroading can be achieved.

You'ld better read this.
And I quote in particular :

Quote

We benefit from community expertise to deliver accuracy not just in appearance, but also operationally.

Furthermore, it has nothing to do with european style or not : just try TrainDispatcher3 (a USA signalling simulator), and you'll find that it is not possible to (re)set a switch after a signal has been cleared over it.

Regards,
Rob Roeterdink

#17 User is offline   JTang 

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 03:27 AM

In a game, our dispatchers are usually amateur but need to control many trains at once, thus making fewer moves are important.
Although may be unrealistic, directly throwing a switch is a feature we should preserve.

Maybe we can try this, if a switch is changed, the signals guarding it will be changed to system control, thus will be properly updated.

#18 User is offline   markus_GE 

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 05:38 AM

The only problem with this solution seems to be, that updating the signal might again lead to problems. If the train facing the signal has already passed the last signal before it, there is np chance to pass the driver the info about the signal´s new state, which could result in, e.g., derailments if he is not prepared for, e.g., a speedlimit through a turnout.

Also, if the "hobby dispatcher" can´t cope with what has to be done, he can in the end decide to have one or the other trains wait at a STOP indication for some time, until he got the other mess sorted. Shouldn´t be too much of a problem :victory:

Cheers, Markus

#19 User is offline   eolesen 

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 09:25 AM

View Postroeter, on 17 December 2013 - 09:02 AM, said:

Please read the first paragraph again - all in good time.
To get a train out of "Wait Dispatcher" mode if there are no signals need some direct control of the train - and that is not available yet.


Thanks, Rob, and yes, I did see that. Not knowing how long it will be for the next phase, it's going to be an ongoing problem for the short term if I update versions, and I won't get the benefit of fixes if I don't update.

Not the end of the world by any means, but still a "damned if I do, damned if I don't" type situation.

I do like the fact that it does seem to be getting a little closer to being able to do a warrant via the radio.

#20 User is offline   Csantucci 

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 11:33 AM

View Posteolesen, on 18 December 2013 - 09:25 AM, said:

Thanks, Rob, and yes, I did see that. Not knowing how long it will be for the next phase, it's going to be an ongoing problem for the short term if I update versions, and I won't get the benefit of fixes if I don't update.

Not the end of the world by any means, but still a "damned if I do, damned if I don't" type situation.


Ditto.

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