[Genma Saotome]

timmuir, on 19 May 2020 - 01:40 PM, said:

Well, if you can make use of it, all the better! I just thought it was a cool pamphlet that fits the topic nicely.

Unfortunately they changed the streets CSL routes ran on about as often as a calendar changes days. In the sheet you posted, Rte P is labeled Lincoln-Wells in the key but does not appear on the map. I have the same sort of map from another date and Rte P starts somewhere on Milwaukee Ave (this street appears on a NW-SE angle at the west edge of the tiles) and runs into Clinton which runs along the west face of the C&NW station, turns east on Washington to head into the loop (going thru a tunnel under the river), turns south on Deerborn (everything turns south on Deerborn), turns west on Madison to return to Clinton and back to Milwaukee ave.

I like that route. I;ll build that path. But what the heck is rte P in your map? Beats me. Which map is closer to 1947? Beats me. :rotfl: I suspect NO amount of research will provide routing accurate for 1947, so I guess I'll just have to wing it in most routes.

[eric from trainsim]

Have fun -- I've got a lot of that track already done for the CNW Chicago, but it's probably a different era. I targeted 1975, so the street lines would be long gone.

[Coonskin]

Quote

I suspect NO amount of research will provide routing accurate for 1947, so I guess I'll just have to wing it in most routes.

Welcome to my world, Dave!

Seems like ALL of my prototype based routes have that issue. Sure, I can often find some track charts here n' there... but typically the wrong era, so in the end I have to make my best guess and move on.

Your extrapolated effort will be fine.

[timmuir]

Dave, yeah, the route indicated as P on the map's legend for downtown routes is the Lincoln - Wells Line, which is described below. Also described are the Milwaukee routes which included Clinton, as you described. Hope this helps. I am not all that familiar with Chicago's street layouts or which routes are which, offhand.

[Genma Saotome]

WOW!, That's really great Tim. Thanks very much for sharing it!!

Any idea of what year it is from?

For most every one the first two to three streets named are all that I would use, the rest of the names being streets that are outside of the modeled area. The notable exception is the one that begins with "Riverview" and that's because it includes Kingsbury. That street is what the Milwaukee used to go from Goose Island to Union Station (right across the river on the west side of the Loop. How do I do freight and streetcar in the same street???

The Elston line looks interesting too as Elston runs very close to Goose Island (east side) where a lot of C&NW serviced industries are located.

An interesting problem.

Really cool stuff!!!

[timmuir]

You're very welcome, Dave. This is from inside the pamphlet from the 1933 Century of Progress Expo. Do you want to see all of the route descriptions? There's 2 more pages.

I know in Portland, Oregon and on the Pacific Electric in Los Angeles, some of the freight movements over streetcar and interurban city lines were mostly done at night when streetcar service was minimal.

[Genma Saotome]

timmuir, on 27 May 2020 - 07:08 AM, said:

You're very welcome, Dave. This is from inside the pamphlet from the 1933 Century of Progress Expo. Do you want to see all of the route descriptions? There's 2 more pages.

I'd like to see all of the routes that go downtown. I suppose it's mixed up so that will require full page scans.

timmuir, on 27 May 2020 - 07:08 AM, said:

I know in Portland, Oregon and on the Pacific Electric in Los Angeles, some of the freight movements over streetcar and interurban city lines were mostly done at night when streetcar service was minimal.

Portland wasn't Chicago. Inside the loop during rush hour wait times between cars were routinely set at 30 seconds. Night owl service -- midnight to 5 am -- had many wait times at only 10 minutes. The long waits (very few) were every 30 minutes. Hard to believe but true.

Anyway, what I was curious about was what was the rail arrangement? I have a very detailed map from the late 50's produced by the Milwaukee (it's about 18 feet long and shows about 2 miles of their track) and it does show where streetcar rails were still present. I'll have to dig that up and examine it again.

[timmuir]

Now, that's service! Pretty close headway there!...no, Portland ain't Chicago.

Here's two more pages for you.





The brochure is a bit too large for the scanner, so the edges are a little cut off, but still readable.

CSL Pullmans

[Genma Saotome]

WOW! Every route on both pages runs thru the loop -- the tracks I plan on placing.

I don't want to go south of Roosevelt rd as that would double the north/south distance of downtown. I'm quite likely to stop a street south of Vanburen, essentially 1/8 of the distance to Roosevelt. The area between Vanburen and Roosevelt IS facinating (damn near unbelievable complexity and variety): three large rail stations and all of the approach tracks, LCL houses, and coach yards; I'll lay some of the streets running to the south but I'm unlikely to add much of anything else beyond the south side of Vanburen. Somebody else can take on the task for all of that.


To put everything in perspective, there will be four wholly independent "routes" here: The MILW freight service based on Goose Island, just north of downtown, the CTA elevated in the Loop, with some staging just outside, the CSL in the Loop, also with the necessary staging, and a bit of the C&NW along the western edge of everything else, which should be commuter service into downtown as well as some freight switching. Neither the MILW or CSL will be signaled tho both will require level crossings. I figure the suburban service would be best as AI trains, as would the occasional MILW and PRR passenger trains into the north half of Union Station. Something for everyone, so long as they like short distances.

[timmuir]

Your plans sound like a screen shooter's paradise! Great for foamers like me...:)

[CrisGer]

I will be in line to buy a ticket to ride too. :)

Chris

[conductorchris]

Me too!

[Genma Saotome]

I've wanted to do a release as-is to get some feedback. The hangup right now is a wholly unexpected "feature" in TSRE that's blocking the laying of streets downtown: The roads I built get laid down like a layer cake with each successive member 1 level higher than the one before.

What happened was I specified a road path 0.2m about the roads origin point because I lifted the road surface by the same amount. That gave me enough "headroom" to arch the street towards the curb w/o burying it. It also means the road paths in the slow lanes are lower than those in the fast lanes -- a 6 lanes road will have 3 different path heights.

Goku is taking a look at this but does not promise it will be fixed. That means I have no streets downtown. I suppose I could lay tracks anyway such that the railheads top out at 0.2m but it will look all wrong.

So until there is a fix or another way to do this I'm kinda stuck plugging away at more buildings. If I burn out on that I';; probably turn my attention tot eh Cal-P for 6 months or so.

[CrisGer]

Dave why not keep[ it simple and just keep the streets level? a germ is a nice idea but really does not need to happen maybe.... i hate to see you side tracked becasue one plan didnt work. a flat street can still look great!!!!!!

just a thought.

chris

[markus_GE]

CrisGer, on 28 May 2020 - 02:14 PM, said:

[...] a germ is a nice idea but really does not need to happen maybe.... [...]

No to nitpick, but that typo is too much of a Freudian slip not to point out that those germs definitely never have been a nice idea ;)

But you're right that it never really needed to happen :D

OK, gonna call it a day and head for my bed now.

Cheers, Markus